Register Log In Wordsmith Talk Forums General Topics Wordplay and fun Invictus Search Advanced Forum Search Forums Calendar Active Threads

Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Invictus #31888 06/12/2001 5:11 PM Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,289 Bobyoungbalt veteran Bobyoungbalt veteran Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,289 Now that the unspeakable criminal McVeigh has made W.E. Henley's Invictus a household word by using it to thumb his nose for the last time at the American people, what do you all think of the poem and that [expletive deleted]'s use of it? For my part, I have never been a big admirer of the poem. I think it's overdone, stylistically, and the philosophy is questionable, even if not as abandoned to nihilism and infidelity as religious conservatives say. But now that the media, in their relentless pursuit of background material to add to the McVeigh story, have dug up the info on Henley, is turns out that it was probably written after he had had his left leg amputated because of tuberculosis of the bone, this at age 16. That background adds some interest to the sentiments expressed. And that makes McVeigh's use of it all the more outrageous. What did he suffer? A convicted and unrepentant mass murderer and terrorist, he enjoyed passionate legal representation (at whose cost?, I would like to know), 3 squares a day, decent housing, access to visitors and the media, and at the end, a far easier death than most people have. And he expects to be viewed as a martyr. O tempora! O mores!. Whoops, excuse me; got carried away off the real subject. Await your reactions. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus #31889 06/12/2001 5:16 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 771 Portland, Oregon Fiberbabe old hand Fiberbabe old hand Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 771 Portland, Oregon For the benefit of anyone else who might have to look it up, as I did: http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Poetry/HenleyInvictus.htm Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus #31890 06/12/2001 5:49 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 wwh Carpal Tunnel wwh Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 The poem is a bit bombastic, but expresses courage, which is certainly to be preferred to whining self-pity. In caring for patients with incurable illnesses, courage is of great value not only to the care givers, but an indispensible adjuvant to any treatment. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus #31891 06/12/2001 6:12 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York "I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul." I thought this was Walt Whitman. Thanks for inadvertently setting me straight. Now which Whitman poem am I thinking of? Help! Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus #31892 06/12/2001 6:16 PM Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,542 this too shall pass tsuwm Carpal Tunnel tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,542 this too shall pass oh captain! my captain!! http://utcsl.phys.utk.edu/~forrest/poems/captain.html (see also, Dead Poet's Society) Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus #31893 06/12/2001 10:17 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 618 Australia doc_comfort addict doc_comfort addict Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 618 Australia Didn't he make chocolates? [in-a-really-weird-mood-e] Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Murdering Poetry ? #31894 06/13/2001 12:51 AM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 Avy old hand Avy old hand Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 "Soldier" written by then Crown Prince Dipendra Left bonds of affection, having duly understood If needed in blood, be ready to fight I will To flames reduce, will lightening halt Spray with blood I will On this uniform, the country's "Sindur" Shake the earth I will. From an article in the Indian Express: Soldier happens to be just one of the several poems where Dipendra speaks passionately of the need to draw blood with uncanny consistency the thread runs across his other poems as well. From a poem titled "O Mother" he dutifully begins - "O, Mother Show us what to do and we'll fulfill.." but by the fifth stanza the martial streak emerges In this chest a flame burns Nepali Strength aglow To build a nation will toil on Till the blood does flow Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Captains and Poetry Murder #31895 06/13/2001 8:45 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York tsuwm, thanks for the clarification. Avy, the only thing those "poems" have going for them is the odd bit of anastrophe ... Were they written originally in English? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Captains and Poetry Murder #31896 06/15/2001 12:10 AM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 Avy old hand Avy old hand Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 > Were they written originally in English? I don't Anna, it did not say in the article. But I think they are translated. They have that discordant ring to it - unless he wrote that badly in English. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Invictus-itis #31897 06/16/2001 2:13 AM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 87 City of Brotherly Love, no not... nikeblack journeyman nikeblack journeyman Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 87 City of Brotherly Love, no not... Did anyone else notice that one of the tweedle-dee tweedle-dumber big TV-media three, in noting McVeigh's use of Invictus and showing part of the text on-screen, changed the spelling of "strait" to "straight?" Insult to injury. Is there a lawyer in the house? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. (have been... ------  Words from medicine  Beheading words  Meta-words  Words from classical mythology  Animal Safari  Words with unusual etymologies  Eponyms or words derived from p...  Loanwords from German  English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode Show Likes Link Copied to Clipboard View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary

Default Style BlackNTan Drab eBay GooG v2 infopop new dark new light original dark original stock rounded corners Slate snow sunny dropshadow theblues Touch Of Grey UBB.threads UBB.threads - Dark UBB.threads - Light UBBCentral UBBCentral - Crimson UBBCentral - Lime UBBCentral - Marshmallow UBBCentral - Mocha UBBCentral - Zen UBBT77 UBBT77 - Dark ubbthreads ubbthreads-dark Forum Rules · Mark All Read Contact Us · Forum Help · Wordsmith Talk