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"The planet is getting warmer. Glaciers are melting. Then and now pictures leave no doubt about the severity of the problem."
ClimateGate
Pronunciation
(man-made global warming hoax)
Meaning
noun:
1. Leftist political agenda cloaked as science exposed by the whistle blower who released internal documents of the East Anglia Climate Research Unit.
2. The fraud and duplicity of the man-made global warming perpetrators.
A related word is watermelon: a person (like Al Gore) who is green on the outside, red on the inside.
Etymology
Retronym based on American term WaterGate: a similar situation wherein an insider provided damning evidence against perfidy and hidden agenda.
Usage
"I called ClimateGate 'the global warming scandal of the century' back on November 20. Deeper and deeper it goes. Over the weekend, University of East Anglia global warming cultist Phil Jones conceded that there has been no statistically significant warming over the last 15 years..."
Michelle Malkin; February 15, 2010
A thought for today about man-made global warming:
The Big Lie - a lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
-Adolph Hitler, Nazi a-hole (Mein Kampf, 1925)
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----please, draw me a sheep----
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Nice to see a word from Irish in AWAD. There is a huge belt of drumlins across the mid-north of Ireland, from coast to coast; Sligo on the west to Down on the east: http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/ice_age.gifMonaghan is in the middle of this region of tens of thousands of drumlins. Hence "the stony grey soil of Monaghan", and placenames likes "Drummeril", in Patrick Kavanagh's famous poem: Stony Grey Soil O stony grey soil of Monaghan The laugh from my love you thieved; You took the gay child of my passion And gave me your clod-conceived. You clogged the feet of my boyhood And I believed that my stumble Had the poise and stride of Apollo And his voice my thick tongued mumble. You told me the plough was immortal! O green-life conquering plough! The mandril stained, your coulter blunted In the smooth lea-field of my brow. You sang on steaming dunghills A song of cowards' brood, You perfumed my clothes with weasel itch, You fed me on swinish food You flung a ditch on my vision Of beauty, love and truth. O stony grey soil of Monaghan You burgled my bank of youth! Lost the long hours of pleasure All the women that love young men. O can I stilll stroke the monster's back Or write with unpoisoned pen. His name in these lonely verses Or mention the dark fields where The first gay flight of my lyric Got caught in a peasant's prayer. Mullahinsa, Drummeril, Black Shanco - Wherever I turn I see In the stony grey soil of Monaghan Dead loves that were born for me.
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And a prediction: "esker" is going to be one of this week's words.
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We on Long Island are actually on a moraine. The ice stopped here. There are many drumlins.
On recent travels in Alaska, twice in the last two years I was able to see up close moraines with the ice behind them. Some were no longer being pushed forward. Seven of the eight major glaciers there are in retreat. The one that isn't retreating is moving because one of the seven is no longer in front of it. One of the Sawyer glaciers in Tracy's Arm is considered in catastrophic retreat. There is no dispute that something is going on with the climate. This is not a matter of politics. People used to dispute that smoking was bad for your health too. Where are they now?
Flying over the Mendenhall Glacier, I wrote this. Too bad I can't post the photo I took from the plane.
Outside the window
Lies a land so foreign,
No, so alien it is beyond
My comprehension to believe
Such a place could exist.
The ground below,
A river of white
Extends as far as the eye can see.
Interrupted only by the sharp points
Of mountaintops popping up
Like islets in a sea of white cotton.
The clouds on the horizon too
Are indistinguishable from the snow
Save for the gray overcast that separates
The cirrus from the cumulus.
This is the most extreme place on earth.
Nothing could live here,
Save an ice worm,
Yet it is a source of life.
The snow, ever moving downward
Eventually to rejoin the sea
The end of a journey
That began at the top of the world. (K. Hickson 2008)
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Thanks for the map (nice map) and gloomy grey poem. An all glacier week or will there be a change for earthquakes and volcanoes and what else we know?
(and thanks for the chilly white poem that followed next)
Last edited by BranShea; 08/10/2010 2:34 PM.
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Climate-gate fizzled out. The scientists were absolved. The science is correct. But the urban legend lives on and the term is shibboleth among denialists! Once an exaggeration or misrepresentation gets into the political echo machine, evidence is irrelevant.
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Nice map, indeed. Really helps.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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I think climategate fizzled because the majority of the major media outlets chose not to keep it alive. Nobody has been absolved of anything, really, except by lack of interest on the part of thousands of investigative reporters who only choose to investigate things that support their beliefs. Were the emails forgeries? Did they not say what we all read in them?
Nobody knows what's causing atmospheric temperatures to rise. They've identified a few suspects, like the CO2 from our cars and trucks. Yet, somebody figured out that the recent eruption of the unpronouncable volcano in Iceland released more CO2 than all the internal combustion engines ever built.
Speaking of Iceland, perhaps the CO2 belching from their longships was what warmed the world of the Vikings enough to allow them to settle and prosper on the shores of Greenland a thousand years ago.
Somebody noted that Long Island is a [terminal] glacial moraine. Ten or so thousand years ago, native Americans could see a wall of ice a mile high at the Island's north shore. I don't believe that Shinnecock SUVs made that melt all the way back to the arctic ice cap.
This issue is most definitely a matter of politics. People like myself don't deny that the temperature is changing; we simply don't believe that giving more money to the government and allowing them to curtail our liberty will make the temperature stop changing.
Last edited by beck123; 08/11/2010 12:27 AM.
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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This issue is most definitely a matter of politics. People like myself don't deny that the temperature is changing; we simply don't believe that giving more money to the government and allowing them to curtail our liberty will make the temperature stop changing.
Here, Here!
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Well, yes, they were absolved. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36104206/A similar report on this side of the Atlantic also cleared Dr. Mann. Quotes out of context aren't much use for determining facts. "Tricks" are very common in science circles and there's a lot of peer-reviewed science papers that have that word in the title. A big deal was also made about the "redefining peer review to exclude two articles." However, those articles were included in the final report, despite the fact that at least one of them was highly suspicious (a review article that misrepresented the findings of other papers, e.g.). Cattiness among scientists - yes. Misrepresentation of the facts - no. Scientists do not claim that C02 is the only factor in global warming. http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54#p/u/8/w5hs4KVeiAU( P -> Q ) =/=> ( ¬P -> ¬Q ) Part of the problem is that urban legends get reported in the blogosphere and suddenly lots of people are repeating them when they aren't true. http://www.grist.org/article/volcanoes-emit-more-co2-than-humansFor most scientists, the science is independent of the politics. For the political types, it seems they start with their assumption that government interference is bad and then work backwards to filter out any 'science' that doesn't result in problems solvable by that solution. The bastion of liberalism the Jasons warned of global warming 3 decades ago: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4690900.eceThey don't know everything, but I think scientists understand the basic chemistry and thermodynamic properties of C02 pretty well.
Last edited by TheFallibleFiend; 08/11/2010 3:35 AM.
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And a prediction: "esker" is going to be one of this week's words. Well guessed! With CO2 reduction people seem to always justify their own comportment by comparing themselves to those who behave worse (volcanoes or Trucks and SUVs, heavy industry. So I transmit Anu's Thought for this Day frome a favorite poet. "Oh, threats of hell and hopes of paradise! / One thing at least is certain -- this life flies; / One thing is certain, and the rest is lies; / The flower that once has blown forever dies." -Omar Khayyam, poet, mathematician, philosopher, astronomer, and physician (1048-1131)
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Speaking of Iceland, perhaps the CO2 belching from their longships was what warmed the world of the Vikings enough to allow them to settle and prosper on the shores of Greenland a thousand years ago.
Somebody noted that Long Island is a [terminal] glacial moraine. Ten or so thousand years ago, native Americans could see a wall of ice a mile high at the Island's north shore. I don't believe that Shinnecock SUVs made that melt all the way back to the arctic ice cap.
Ah, the old "climate changed in the past, so what's different now?" argument. What is definitely different now is the vastly accelerated rate of change. There are natural cycles of cold and warm periods, but nothing in the records (ice cores, tree rings, fossil deposits etc.) indicates anything like the pace of change we've seen in a single century or even 50 years. You don't need SUVs to explain the changes millennia ago to Long Island or Iceland, but you do need SUVs (and everything else we do) to explain what's going on now. I am a scientist by profession; not a climate scientist but an astronomer. I cannot claim personal expertise on this topic but here's what I do claim: the scientific method works. If tens of thousands of scientists around the globe studying this area have formulated a consensus backed up by data, while a few hundred take the opposing view, I will trust the majority, because I trust the scientific method. And so should the citizenry of the world, because it is the only objective process they can trust in a matter like this.
This issue is most definitely a matter of politics. People like myself don't deny that the temperature is changing; we simply don't believe that giving more money to the government and allowing them to curtail our liberty will make the temperature stop changing.
Your liberty is curtailed in all sorts of ways already, for good reasons. You do not have liberty to murder your neighbour, or rape his wife, or poison his children's food and water. All that's changing now is a realisation that we don't have liberty to pollute the atmosphere that we all must share, any more than we have liberty to pollute the municipal water supply that we all must share. "Government" has nothing to do with it. What you perceive as inalienable "liberties" are not being curtailed to appease some leftist lobby in Washington (I am assuming you are American by the clues you've left); they are being curtailed so that statistically, over time, fewer people will suffer and die in a climate characterised by extreme weather like the present Pakistani floods. Or maybe you don't care about their lives and liberties?
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And a prediction: "esker" is going to be one of this week's words. Well guessed! I'm basking here in the glorious success of my prediction. Basking, I tell you. 
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Bask on RB, bask and don't get burned, baked or fried. So what will it be tomorrow ? Corries?
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Scientific method is the way to go. They evidence is plain to see if one just looks. Yes we need to care about what is going on elsewhere. All in all well said RB.
Corries-- saw a lot of these up north in Alaska and sometimes when they thaw in the summer there are magnificent watefalls.
I'm not sure if Corrie is the correct word for some glacial lakes and ponds that were left on Long Island as their initial sides are not steep but some are deep however.
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corries I always like these image pages for a quick view of what it's all about. The world will outlive us. I don't think we will kill it. We will kill ourselves before. Like Easter Island people. ( Just to add something cheerful to the discussion)
Last edited by BranShea; 08/11/2010 8:53 PM.
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@ RB:
We are straying far from "drumlin," aren't we? The liberties you say I've already lost are not liberties at all, but unconscionable license that has never been approved at any time in any stable society. Those are not the liberties I claim, and I think you know that.
I'm a scientist, too, with a doctoral degree and some 40 years of experience, so I know the value of the scientific method. Your assumption is that it is being applied in a perfectly objective way to a scientific issue that, if correct, will quickly move the way we are governed in the direction of the political philosophy that is held by the overwhelming majority of academic scientists. It doesn't pass the smell test for me. The same gambit was tried a few decades ago with global cooling. Read the dire drumbeat in every issue of SCIENCE or even SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN from that era.
You also haven't addressed how giving more money and authority to the government or "tranferring" it to the Third World will stop the change in temperature. It will certainly accomplish many of the goals of socialism, but it will not affect the temperature at all.
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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SciAm is not peer reviewed to the best of my knowledge, hence the "even" modifier in my post. It's authors are, however, recognized experts in the fields about which they write. They write about the state of science (in their fields) for informed laypersons. Its editorials and columnists are, especially today, entirely politicized and all in the same direction.
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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Strange things are happening. I wait and wait and yet sea levels don't rise. Damnation, I sure don't want to go through another Ice Age; the last one was a killer!
Oh well, maybe it'll weed out the fuzzy thinkers.
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Let's hope it doesn't give any advantage to the cold-hearted.
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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That was amusing.  @ Beck123 Money can't buy safety nor change of climate, whichever way it will go. But money can do positive things in the way of environmental issues. Tax money has helped build installations that cleaned our inland and coastal waters up to the point that we are now able to swim in it again, which was downright disgusting and dangerous in the -70s. The issue isn't money and politics. It's about awareness, regardless whatever state system you feel comfortable with, about what is serving us (globe and global), not just me. (drumlin-detours))
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Strange things are happening. I wait and wait and yet sea levels don't rise. Damnation, I sure don't want to go through another Ice Age; the last one was a killer! Maybe you can pass your measurements on to NASA. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=6638Oh well, maybe it'll weed out the fuzzy thinkers. Doubtful. It's easier to parrot "news" contrived on a fair and balanced network and then promulgated across the echo chamber of a yammering, mindless blogosphere than it is to look stuff up. But we can hope.
Last edited by TheFallibleFiend; 08/12/2010 1:15 PM.
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Well, it could be that the writers of SciAm are part of the global conspiracy to deprive Americans of their money and liberty. Or it could be that they actually understand the science in their own field better than politicos and scientists from outside their field - and it could be that companies that depend on carbon fuel, similar to tobacco companies back in the 50s, realize that they don't have to win this argument - all they have to do is create sufficient doubt. This would explain why most of the scholarly papers purporting to refute AGW originate with groups like CEI, AEI, Cato Inst, among others - which are funded by Heritage Foundation and Heartland Inst which is funded by big oil (among other things). http://www.edf.org/documents/3943_paidskeptics.pdfHere's a new word that I'd like to see discussed: agnatology. The scientists are fighting a losing battle. People demand an unreasonable amount of evidence from them, but none - absolutely none it seems for the false rumors, exaggerations, and innuendo - that they picked up and pass on in office banter ... er ... arrive through their own insightful reasoning from their carefully collected data. Really. I'd like to see "agnatology" discussed - and that term the other fellow brought up "watermelon" ... and maybe a few others like "astroturfing."
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Interesting graph, that NASA graph, what with an arbitrary base level for dramatic effect. Even so it looks like I'll have to wait one hundred years before I can get my feet wet. Darn. During previous Interglacials sea level rose big time, eighteen feet or more. Ah, those were the days.
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agnotology (formerly agnatology) (see derivation), the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt 
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part of the global conspiracy to deprive Americans of their money and libertyOh, I love a goodly conspiracy theory. They just grow exponentially as they borg more cacomamy factoids. Maybe we could get the grays and the academicians in here, too. And, Scientific American? Please. It's the Internet, that's the ticket; it's the biggest of all governmental mind-controlling conspiracies that's really at the bottom of global warming and fluoridation of our precious bodily fluids. astroturfingMaybe we could discuss FUD ( link), too.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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The data are consistent with the increasing trend over the past century, but yes, the data do look to have accelerated from about 2.4 mm/yr over this century to about 3 mm/yr (just eyeballing) over the time period in the graph. http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/MSL_global_trendtablefc.htmlIf they had wanted to be dramatic, they could show the increasing trend over a century with the increasing-increasing trend over this decade. No scientist has predicted that you would get your feet wet. Look up the term "straw man." And while it's probably of no interest to you - your personally getting your feet wet is no indication of the potential effect on other people. Look up "non sequitur." Why would you compare the current situation to the peak of the LIG? During the last LIG, do you think that it just jumped to that level in a century or a decade or ... a second? 2.4 - 3 mm/yr rise today compares to 5.6 to 9.2 mm/yr rise throughout LIG. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7275/full/nature08686.html"Probabilistic assessment of sea level during the last interglacial stage" However, "polar temperatures [were] ~3–5 °C warmer than today" due partly to the fact that "Earth's orbital eccentricity was more than twice the modern value." Further, "As a result of industrial activity, greenhouse gas concentrations now exceed levels reached on Earth at any time within the past 800 kyr. Given a climate sensitivity of 2–4.5 °C per doubling of carbon dioxide levels, current greenhouse gas concentrations––without considering any further increases––are sufficient to cause an equilibrium warming of 1.4–3.2 °C." It is folly of me to continue, being as how peer-reviewed articles in Nature are orchestrated by the Illuminati, NWO, reptilian conspiracy, so I'm done. Peer-reviewed science is insignificant compared to the awesome power of "because I said so" or "I heard somewhere."
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Peer-reviewed science is insignificant compared to the awesome power of "because I said so" or "I heard somewhere."
Ipsedixitism ...
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Ah yes, peer-review. The same system that works for politicians. Throughout history the dogmas of formal science have obscured reality. You know, like the more arcane religions.
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FUD is a technique employed by used car salesmen to pressure you into signing the papers NOW, RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WHEN YOU COME BACK THIS BABY WILL BE OUT THE DOOR! And by some computer salesmen on IT managers - if you go with one of those CHEAPER guys, but they're gonna be outta business soon and then where would you be? It's also used by some religious practitioners to convince potential acolytes to commit themselves RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE YOU COULD DIE BY MORNING AND THEN WHERE WOULD YOU BE? Politicians, too, when they want or need to goad colleagues or constituents into immediate action without thinking of the repercussions. Robert Procter's neologism is appropriate and descriptive, though. Here's an interesting talk about how the of agnotology is implemented: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio
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... money can do positive things in the way of environmental issues. Tax money has helped build installations that cleaned our inland and coastal waters up to the point that we are now able to swim in it again, which was downright disgusting and dangerous in the -70s. That is one way to solve the problem, but there are others. We accomplished the same result here with a regulatory scheme that imposed stricter and stricter environmental standards over a few decades. The actual work was done with corporate money, and corporations were encouraged to arrive at suitable outcomes, not necessarily to follow government methods. Corporations developed economical ways to reach a large number of the goals set by government, and the effect on consumer prices was barely noticeable. And, we were not taxed, except to fund the regulatory agencies. Another tool that was used was tax incentives: reduction in corporate taxes for the timely accomplishment of environmental goals. That's even better, in my opinion: it's the right way to deal with people, so why shouldn't it work for corporations? PS - I like your new avatar. Looks like a polyommatine lycaenid, maybe the genus Polyommatus
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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Yes of course, the means you mentioned are practised alongside of the tax system here as well. Whatever works is fine. Many environment issues are just obvious and we can do something about it. Like some recent massive mud slides (China) are clearly the result of tree cutting and smogs in cities due to holy-cow car. Turn bikes into a serious means of transportation and you can breath fresher air and fight overweight all in one. Paris has car-freed the quais of the Seine. Everybody is delighted. Bikes are fine.
Yes, the butterfly is one of your Polyommatusses. They pass faithfully once a year when in the backyard the blackberries blossom.
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speaking of scientists, wasn't the antagonist in Sagan's Contact named Drumlin?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Sofar I've only known the writer Françoise Sagan. The one who wrote a.o. "Bonjour Tristesse" 
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Sofar I've only known the writer Françoise Sagan. The one who wrote a.o. "Bonjour Tristesse" ah, Carl Sagan.
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Excerpt from "Pale Blue Dot" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehwWe can see the entire Cosmos series at Hulu for free (at least for now): http://www.hulu.com/search?query=cosmos&st=1Sagan's "Demon-Haunted World" should be required reading for any advanced high school diploma and for all college students. He had a keen interest in the stumbling blocks (obvious and not so obvious) to human civilization. http://www.philosophy.thecastsite.com/readings/godwantsyoudead/demonhauntedworld.pdf"... science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness."
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25 |
I get a popup saying that it will only stream to IP addresses in the USA. 
"... science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness."
That's the most profound thing I've read in some time. He was definitely onto something. Anyone here follow the new "hot word" forums at Dictionary.com? They are a complete mess of the ignorant, the demented, and the religiously brainwashed. Every single topic gets hijacked into an "Only Jesus can save you! (unless you're gay)" sort of thing. I think we are already far advanced in "sliding...back into superstition and darkness".
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526 |
Same thing happens with the NPR, Science, The Economist, NatGeo, etc. groups on Facebook. You often can't have an intelligent conversation about a new science-related article without a gaggle of them redirecting the thread by interjecting some irrelevant or completely mistaken "point." You want to just leave it, but it's so insane or the actual facts so readily available, you feel like you have to respond, lest some unwary person take it seriously. You can let it stand which allows them to continue crowing about how nobody can refute them, or you can rebut their assertions which 1) feeds the conspiracy mentality (see! if we weren't on to something, why is everybody so MAD at us?); 2) makes them appear more legitimate than they are (see! people think we're worth responding to!); 3) doesn't prevent them from crowing victory no matter how inane their "point" is. In rare and for the most part extreme circumstances, I have experienced both hallucination and delusion, but I realized the situation in short order. However the delusion some people have of their understanding of science is of an entirely different character. This is, I suspect, largely due to the Dunning-Kruger effect. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.64.2655&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Last edited by TheFallibleFiend; 08/17/2010 3:57 PM.
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