|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Buridan, ass and all ended up in the Seine, for what reason I don't know.
From François Villon's Ballade des dames du temps jadis:
Où est la très sage Helloïs, , Pour qui fut chastré et puis moyne Pierre Esbaillart à Saint-Denis? Pour son amour ot cest essoyne. Semblablement, où est la royne Qui commanda que Buridan Fust gecté en ung sac en Saine? Mais où sont les neiges d'antan!
Where is the very wise Heloise, For whom was castrated, and then (made) a monk, Pierre Esbaillart (Abelard) in Saint-Denis ? For his love he suffered this sentence. Similarly, where is the Queen (Jeanne de Navarre) Who ordered that Buridan Be thrown in a sack into the Seine? Oh, where are the snows of yesteryear!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Aha--now I know why we were taught in high school ONLY the last line as "an old French saying"!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Buridan, ass and all ended up in the Seine, for what reason I don't know.
I don't see Buridan's ass (i.e., âne or Equus asinus) in the sack that gets thrown into the Seine.
Dictes moy où n'en quel pays est Flora la belle Romaine
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Dictes moy où n'en quel What language is this, please?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
What language is this, please?Middle French ( link).
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390 |
What language is this, please?Middle French ( link). shabbash! I thought it must have been an older type of French. yay me.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Alas, I did not mean his ass. Villon's poem got immortality support; George Brassens put it to music in the 1950-s. Ballade
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Alas, I did not mean his ass.  latishya, it's good to see your fonts again! You've been missed.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Hello again Latishya. link "For example, classical Latin equus was replaced in common parlance by vulgar Latin caballus, derived from Gaulish caballos (Delamare 2003 p.96), giving Modern French cheval, Catalan cavall, Occitan caval (chaval), Italian cavallo, Portuguese cavalo, Spanish caballo, Romanian cal, and (borrowed from Anglo-Norman) English cavalry and chivalry." ( From the article) Here is equus again. From the article it seems like Old French was more like vulgar Latin? It looks a bit like Esperanto. Is there any literature or well known document left written in Old French?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Is there any literature or well known document left written in Old French?There is La Chanson de Roland ( link). It exists in multiple MSS. An excerpt: Carles li reis, nostre emper[er]e magnes Set anz tuz pleins ad estet en Espaigne: Tresqu'en la mer cunquist la tere altaigne. N'i ad castel ki devant lui remaigne; Mur ne citet n'i est remes a fraindre, Fors Sarraguce, ki est en une muntaigne. Li reis Marsilie la tient, ki Deu nen aimet; Mahumet sert e Apollin recleimet: Nes poet guarder que mals ne l'i ateignet.It was composed towards the end of the Old French period. For some French that is older, you can do to the Strasbourg Oaths (part of which are in Romance) in the 9th century: Pro Deo amur et pro Christian poblo et nostro commun salvament, d'ist di in avant, in quant Deus savir et podir me dunat, si salvarai eo cist meon fradre Karlo et in ajudha et in cadhuna cosa, si cum om per dreit son fradra salvar dift, in o quid il me altresi fazet, et ab Ludher nul plaid numquam prindrai, qui, meon vol, cist meon fradre Karle in damno sit.(English: For the love of God and for Christendom and our common salvation, from this day onwards, as God will give me the wisdom and power, I shall protect this brother of mine Charles, with aid or anything else, as one ought to protect one's brother, so that he may do the same for me, and I shall never knowingly make any covenant with Lothair that would harm this brother of mine Charles.) There is also some Old High German in there: In godes minna ind in thes christiânes folches ind unsêr bêdhero gehaltnissî, fon thesemo dage frammordes, sô fram sô mir got gewizci indi mahd furgibit, sô haldih thesan mînan bruodher, sôso man mit rehtu sînan bruodher scal, in thiu thaz er mig sô sama duo, indi mit Ludheren in nohheiniu thing ne gegango, the mînan willon imo ce scadhen werdhên.(English: For the love of God and Christendom and the salvation of us both, from this day on, as God will give me the wisdom and power, I shall protect this brother of mine, as one ought to protect one's brother, so that he may do the same for me, and I shall never go along with Lothair in anything that, by my will, would harm him [Louis].) ( Link) It so happened today I was skimming through an historical grammar of French. It's online, but might not be available outside the US ( link).
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,809
Members9,187
|
Most Online3,341 Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
0 members (),
419
guests, and
3
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|