Could this distinction be the start of what has split the word "envelop" and "envelope" into two seperate dictionary entries - with the addition of the "e" to 'force' the issue?
Object. I've heard "homage" with both accents, but I think they mean the same thing. Gentle and genteel, almost. Defense. I have no idea what you'd call it.
I can't think of the technical name for this (stress shift? stress variation? no) but it's common enough in English and can even be a productive force (i.e. it can cause pronounciations to change to match the pattern).
Possible examples of noun/verb stress difference, depending on your accent: import, export, contact, research, digest, retard, compact.
All the examples given (as far as my usage is concerned anyway) have the stress on the first syllable for nouns and later for verbs. Are there any exceptions to this? [Ok "fish" as a verb has the stress on the first syllable and "fish" as a noun on the last, but apart from that one]
re homage I've never heard this as other than a noun and only the one stress pattern and pronounciation. (=hOmij). How else is it pronounced? =homIj, homage (like fromage)?
Edit: of course there are adjective/verb pairs too, such as "absent", "abstract". I think some of the earlier examples were of this type.
ello. In German there are cases where two different verbs are written the same; they can only be differentiated from one another through context or 'stress-placement', for example 'übersetzen'. It usually means 'interprete' or 'translate', but can mean 'transfer to (the other side of)' when pronounced ÜBERsetzen, though this is not a very common use. Most would opt for a word with a clearer meaning. Are there any such stressy verbs in English?
NW points out: Homage: could be pronounced om-AHZH, but I'd spell it hommage if doing so.
Never saw the hommage* spelling but when you pronounce it that way you're claiming that what you did wasn't really plagiarism but rather an honor to the person you plagiari...oops, i mean paid homage to.
*Quick M-W lookup shows this to be the Old French spelling.
re hommage Quick M-W lookup shows this to be the Old French spelling
It is the modern French spelling as well. I have only heard "hommage" pronounced om-AHZH, in a French context. But as far as I am aware they mean the same thing in both French and English. Am I missing something? Rod
My knowledge of Modern French is minimal. ICLIU. I have heard the HAHM ij pronunciation but normally hear the oh MAZH pronunciation in the context I outlined above.
Neither had I, and since my meagre resources, paper and online, don't list it as English, I'll stick with spelling it with one m, while indicating the intended pronunciation by using "an".
Hommage is what an auteur pays in their oeuvre. I see it mainly in artistic contexts, especially film.
Thanks. I mostly use homage in that sense, but did not know tthat doing so required use of the French spelling. Still on the subject of pronunciation, are there any interesting nodes on the "how did Romans pronunce Latin" thread at E2? Even though it is way out of my league,I have been lurking there a bit, but find searching for specific topics a little challenging in such an amoprhous environment. I need a seer to guide to me, I think.
It often grates on me when I hear a word which I pronounce in a certain way being pronounced another way. The one which irritates me most is "controversy", which I stress on the 2nd syllable & which British newsreaders insist on stressing on the 3rd syllable. I call this putting the emPHAsis on the wrong syllABle...Perhaps I'm just unreasonable!
My Webster New World Dictionary suggests equal accent on first and third syllables, which is what I am used to. I too experience a bit of inappropriate irritation when a pronunciation I am not used to interrupts the auditory recording of the message.
QA "controversy", which I stress on the 2nd syllable & which British newsreaders insist on stressing on the 3rd syllable.
I hear different people in UK stressing syllables 1,2,or 3 (or 1=3) in this word. I think we have to accept that some words will be pronounced differently in different countries or social groups. But I agree with you that the "incorrect" pronunciation of some words produces an inordinate and maybe irrational antipathy.
My son learnt to read very early and was a voracious reader. As such he learnt many words first from print and would very often surprise us with a new word pronounced by example from others similarly spelled. Not a strategy designed to produce great accuracy in English. He would sometimes have to write the word down before we could understand what he meant. I can't think of many examples (it was many years ago now) but I do remember taking him in a rowing dinghy when he was about 5. We got about 3 yards from shore and he asked "Daddy, is this the su-blit-oral zone?" Rod
Dear Rod: Am I right in thinking your son was a shell collector, and wanted to know if the boat was outside the low tide line? If so, his pronunciation sounds quite acceptable. I wonder how he managed with the jawbreaking Latin names of shells!
and wanted to know if the boat was outside the low tide line yes, but I don't remember him wanting to collect shells. We did collect ammonites and other fossils on holiday once. The trouble was that "sub-littoral" wasn't in my everyday vocabulary at the time either, so I probably resorted to the "You may very well be right" type of evasion that as parents we know we shouldn't. I soon found that it was much more profitable for both parties if I asked my son "And what makes you think that?" at which point he would quote chapter and verse from some book he had read, and I would learn a lot. I would also sometimes be able to expand or correct his knowledge. Rod
I think US'ns mostly pronounce this with the major emphasis on the first syllable and secondary emphasis on the third. Personally, I think the con TROV ersy pronunciation is kinda cute.
I cannot think of any experience happier than watching a bright child develop.
except that of watching a dull or disabled child managing to outreach their expected potential, perhaps? We were extremely lucky with our children and tok great joy in their development, but we came rather to expect it. Our neighbours had a brain damaged child who overcame great odds to become literate and numerate. They also took great joy particularly in the unexpected triumphs. I must admit that I would not change places however for one minute.
" what's the expression, btw, about one's children tending to be the revenge of their grandparents?"
Dear bridget96: As a switch, there was a girl I knew who was in local parlance a hellion. But to the surprise of all who knew her, became a very successful business woman. When her mother wanted to have the grand-children come visit, the daughter said: "What? And let you turn them into brats as you did with me? I guess not!"
Dear francais31415: Your mentioning "defence" reminded me of a chuckle I got way back in 1942 when a Boston newspaper published a picture of American troops "pouring ashore past a sign calling for the defense of Africa." The poster on the telephone pole read "Defence d'afficher" Regrettably I have been unable to check the spelling. But I know the sign meant "Post no Bills".
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