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Hi. I don't know if your the right folks to ask this but my wife told me: "You get that word of the day thing, ask them." So I shall. My question is, if we call soccer in America, soccer. And they refer to the same occupation in the rest of the world as football. What does the word soccer mean in "the rest of the world"? I suppose Americans stole the word football and bastadized it. That seems evident. But what is soccer? What does it mean to a person in Italy for example.....
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Good day to you. Don't know if I'm the right folks, but Europeans generally see the word 'soccer' as a degrading word word for the ballgame that is played without the use of hands.
( it used to be a typical working class game , some say the idea was to give the factory men a rest for their hands while exercizing the rest of their bodies.)
Soccer is a lousy word. Football is the most logic and evident word for it and we all know that Americans consider football a sport for girls and sissies , so to make that public they gave it this shabby sloppy name. I do not know what the word SOCCER means, but it comes very close to sucker.
To put it straight.
I think Americans don't like team sports where you can't give someone a good bump or bang on the head. That's allright.
But I never understood why they can't use the word the rest of the world gives it. Someone here should be able to give a refined explanation about this matter.
Done.
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blame the Brits! The rules of football were codified in England by the Football Association in 1863, and the name association football was coined to distinguish the game from the other forms of football played at the time, specifically rugby football. The term soccer originated in England, first appearing in the 1880s as a slang abbreviation of the word "association", often credited to former England captain Charles Wreford-Brown. Today the sport is generally known simply as football in countries where it is the most popular football code. In countries where other codes are more popular, the sport is more commonly referred to as soccer, and indeed is referred to as such in the official names of the governing bodies in the United States and Canada*. FIFA, the sport's world governing body, defines the sport as association football in its statutes, but the term most commonly used by FIFA and the International Olympic Committee is football. [etymology per Wikipedia, emphasis added] so, it's not just willful, it's the law!  * Canadian football is to be distinguished from American football. - joe (futbol) friday
Last edited by tsuwm; 08/14/2008 6:53 PM.
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The law!  My foot! The Brits don't call it soccer any more. It's pure backward willfulnes. What other country but U.S. and Canada call it soccer? I mean, it just puzzles me. How can a country that is so advanced in many ways, be so backward in this matter of mayor importance?
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enthusiast
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But what is soccer? What does it mean to a person in Italy for example..... Not much, since they don't even call it "football" or the equivalent over there. It's calcio in the land of Serie A.
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What other country but U.S. and Canada call it soccer?
Down here in Enzed it's Soccer for sure and rugby is rugby.
Last edited by olly; 08/14/2008 9:59 PM.
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What other country but U.S. and Canada call it soccer?
Down here in Enzed it's Soccer for sure and rugby is rugby. also in Oz, as well, where there's also footy to contend with?
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Pooh-Bah
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The biggest objection I see to the term football as used in the US and here is that the ball so seldom touches anyone's foot.
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yeahbut, think of all those plays that come up a 'foot' short on the last down.
-joe (thinking 'yardball' may signify something else) friday
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Not much, since they don't even call it "football" or the equivalent over there. It's "calcio" in the land of Serie A.
Yes in the land of Macchiavelli they diplomatically just call it " ball ". Goal! Zed, Goal! Olly, you see, the word soccer is an outdated British Dominian word. (How can you live with it?) 
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Sounds good to me! What's not their fault can generally be attributed to the Kiwis. The rules of football were codified in England by the Football Association in 1863, and the name association football was coined... Resulting in the famous Monty Python sketch of Word Association Football... Down here in Enzed it's Soccer for sure and rugby is rugby. also in Oz, as well, where there's also footy to contend with? In Queensland and NSW, 'footy' (or football) = Rugby League, and Rugby Union is 'Rugby'. In all other Australian States 'Footy' refers to Australian Rules Football. Rugby is referred to everywhere as Rugby Union or Rugby to distinguish it from Rugby League. American Football (and Canadian Football which to us is no different and just as silly and woossy a game) is called Gridiron. Throughout Australia the world game is known as Soccer, and we only take an interest in it when Australia is in the World Cup or some other international contest.
Last edited by The Pook; 08/15/2008 6:01 AM.
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American football combines the two worst aspects of our society, violence and committee meetings.
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But what is soccer? What does it mean to a person in Italy for example.....
The OED1 (B&M ed.) has soccer listed under its early British spelling socker. The word is not even considered an Americanism at the point. The first citation is 24/10/1891, in the periodical the Lock to Lock Times, 13/2: "A sterling player, and has the best interest of the 'socker' game at heart". The two other citations are from the late 19th century, both are spelled socker, and neither is from a US publication. The usual etymology given, though the OED1 does not offer one, is from association. It was suggested by Partridge and in another British slang dictionary I consulted that the word started in a public school (Harrows). It must have spread from the UK to other anglophone countries.
I looked in my roughly 40-year-old monolingual Italian dictionary, and foot-ball was listed as a synonym for calcio which means literally 'kick', though the word itself is from the Latin calx, calcis, 'heel' and also metonymically 'foot'. I know most of this thread has been good-natured ribbing but I really don't understand what the question means. What does 97% of English vocabulary "mean" to a (possibly monolingual) person in Italy?
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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American football combines the two worst aspects of our society, violence and committee meetings. hahahahahahahahahaha!!! hey, our violence is better than your violence - at least we don't wear that namby-pamby body armour!
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Oh, that was some error I made. Ball is palla, pallone, pallina. Dom, dom, dom = dumb- dumb- dee-dumb.
Last edited by BranShea; 08/16/2008 9:57 AM.
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stranger
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The word and it's origin are pretty intresting. In and of itself. Whats even more intresting is how such a simple discussion can spark so much nationlism in everyone. Everytime soccer comes up it becomes an argument about who is more out of line. Americans or the rest of the world. Right away people start defending or attacking one sport or the other. It makes perfectly logical intelegent people look like fanatics. Which if I'm not mistaken is the root of "Fan". I played football since the 4th grade and on into college. People in the states don't even really understand it. How can people "from away" be expected to. For example. I doupt really if in modern times one can spend ones time in a more violent pass time than that of running back in the NFL. It's the most violent occupation within a violent disipline. And yet we're all shocked when O.J. Simpson acts out what he has been lavishly rewarded for doing his entire life. They teach you to be violent as a child. And when your playing days are over they say, do any more of that and we'll lock you up. Well, except O.J. I don't understand soccer. But most of the world does. So it has some serious merit. I do want to point out though, to call what they do in Canada football, is a grave injustice. I'm not kidding. Why do they have to screw up a perfect game. Just so nobody thinks for one second that they like America that's why.
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Knocking Canada is not the best way to discourage nationalistic arguments.
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I'm not kidding. Why do they have to screw up a perfect game. Just so nobody thinks for one second that they like America that's why. Ireesh, I must confess that I was more than less kidding when wrote my first answer. And I don't even understand the first rules of Rugby, American and Canadian Football. I look at it and it looks muddy, violent and crowdy that's all. I like baseball better when it comes to liking teamsports. The whole real fanatism of sports escapes me anyway. But people need challenges and ways to excel one way or the other. Sports is able to give that. I do like to watch a good 'soccer'football game. My son at 23 still plays, helps coaching the young ones on an amateur basis and it's his world.
Last edited by BranShea; 08/19/2008 8:43 AM. Reason: No kidding
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Ireeesh, you sound pretty negative about what you refer to at the end as "a perfect game."
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A perfect game is when the pitcher doesn't allow any opponent batters to reach first base. This definition was concocted by an over-protective father of a teen-age girl.
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an argument about who is more out of line. Americans or the rest of the world. That's an easy one. It's Americans. Unless you're George Bush. For him, the rest of America and the rest of world are out of step with Texas.
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And if all the lines aren't parallel we end up with intersections and angles, which complicate line formations and moving lines and I don't know what all.
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On the surface of a sphere there are no parallel lines.
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On the surface of a sphere there are no parallel lines. Depends how you draw them, doesn't it? On a globe parallel lines are called latitude aren't they?
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Depends more on how you define them. Once you bring in the word parallel you've gone into the world of mathematics and a 'straight' line becomes an arc of a great circle. Since all great circles will divide the sphere into two hemispheres any (straight) line will necessarily intersect any other (straight) line at two points. Hence, no parallel lines on the surface of a sphere.
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The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Where do we find a straight line that is not made by men? Does it exist in any other way than as an abstraction? BranShea-Lines
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There are loads of straight lines in nature. You can start with light, pass through lines of cleavage in stones and minerals, and end with anything heavy that gets dropped. There are tons of examples in between. It is humankind that mimics nature by copying straight lines... :0)
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Quote : A line can be described as an ideal zero-width,infinitely long, perfectly straight curve (the term curve in mathematics includes "straight curves")containing an infinite number of points. In Euclidean geometry, exactly one line can be found that passes through any two points. The line provides the shortest connection between the points.
In two dimensions, two different lines can either be parallel, meaning they never meet, or may intersect at one and only one point. In three or more dimensions, lines may also be skew, meaning they don't meet, but also don't define a plane.
Two distinct planes intersect in at most one line. Three or more points that lie on the same line are called collinear.
I have the faint idea that there is something fishy with your examples.
The line of a falling heavy object may be a straight line (there may be factors to disturb this ); it is an abstraction. I mean perfect straight lines, like in the
mathematical sense. A cleavage in stones and minerals is never pure straight when not manipulated by men. Light? Abstraction?
The line, idea of lines fascinates me. I think management of fire, the 'invention', materializing of the idea of the straight line and the invention of the wheel are about it.
(yea, loads of other things followed and tons of exemples in between and I know I'm a fool) but....
Anyway , most of what we see as lines are not really lines at all
but contours or the intersection of planes. Even the thinnest wire is a minuscule cilinder.
Last edited by BranShea; 08/21/2008 5:09 PM.
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You are no fool, lady... 
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Nah, you see, I can't get it straight. Something with zero-width;
I can imagine that, but how do I visualize it?
That's why I always had trouble with mathematics. The only thing I liked was what we call "describing geometry"( literal translation) , which was about lines and planes, intersections, points, three dimensional forms in space.
(and believe me I wasn't even good at that but I liked it and still do).
Last edited by BranShea; 08/21/2008 10:14 PM.
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Well you start to get into the area of philosophy and metaphysics fairly quickly don't you? Plato v. Aristotle and all that stuff. What is the relationship between the Universal and the Particulars, or in this case between the mathematical concept or 'Form' of a line and its practical applications, attributions or "accidents" in nature, etc. It brings in all sorts of interesting words like resolution, scale, approximation, perspective, viewpoint, etc. Or you can go sideways into Kantian philosophy and start talking about perceptual grids and how our mind's interpretation relates to objective reality, etc. Is there no such thing as a line, except in our thoughts? Is it just a concept we impose on nature?
What Fal said, it depends a lot on definition. It's largely a matter of semantics and context.
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There are parallel planes of lattitude in a sphere.
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There are parallel planes of lattitude in a sphere. But not on the surface of a shpere.
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The lattitude lines are parallel. Would you call the bands/planes on the surface in between the lattitude lines parallel or mirrored parallel? GlobeIlattitude
Last edited by BranShea; 08/22/2008 11:53 AM.
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Whats even more intresting is how such a simple discussion can spark so much nationlism in everyone. Everytime soccer comes up it becomes an argument about who is more out of line. Americans or the rest of the world. Right away people start defending or attacking one sport or the other. It makes perfectly logical intelegent people look like fanatics. Which if I'm not mistaken is the root of "Fan". I played football since the 4th grade and on into college. People in the states don't even really understand it. How can people "from away" be expected to. To the contrary, I would say that in the U.S. there is practically no discussion whatsoever, heated or otherwise, about the differences in nomenclature of various sports, nor is there any regular discussion or criticism of other countries for liking other sports. By and large Americans are perfectly comfortable with the concept of a game being called soccer in the U.S. and football overseas. We don't waste our time and energy nitpicking other countries, and I have never seen foreigners accosted in otherwise pleasant social settings and asked to explain, defend or justify something like sporting terms. I suspect the difference is that soccer/football is a game beloved by folks overseas, and a relatively minor sport in the U.S. A good number of my friends and family are active in community soccer leagues, which in turn are well peopled by foreigners, including the English and Irish, as well as participants from South America. Everyone is comfortable with the idea that a game could be called soccer in one part of the world, and football in another, and likewise we are comfortable with the fact that what we Americans call football is a game either not played at all or looked at derision in other countries.
Last edited by Alex Williams; 08/22/2008 1:09 PM.
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There are parallel planes of lattitude in a sphere. But not on the surface of a shpere. Lines of latitude ARE parallel. Lines of longitude intersect at the poles.
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Back the ballgame. Any connection between This and American Football? Too quick supposition. The next page shows it's sort of hockey-like.
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Back the ballgame. Any connection between This and American Football? Two quick supposition. The next page shows it's sort of hockey-like. no, it's lacrosse with a *lot of players. it is hockey-like in that it has a net and a goalie and sticks. - joe (le jeu de la crosse) friday
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Wich is also played in Finland. Lacrosse Thanks It's a real American native game then that travelled.
Last edited by BranShea; 08/25/2008 8:38 AM. Reason: Degrumping of grumpy answer
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