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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread dystopia #177068 05/20/08 03:52 PM Joined: May 2008 Posts: 4 P pallasathene OP stranger OP pallasathene stranger P Joined: May 2008 Posts: 4 I've just found this site and goingback through the archives, I found the entry for 'dystopia', and I would like to clarify where it comes from. It derives from 'dys' and 'topos', 'bad' and 'place', not from 'dys' and 'utopia'. 'Utopia' itself is not a Greek word; the inside joke is that the transliterated 'u' prefix is used for both 'ou' - not - and 'eu' - good, so utopia means both good place and no place. The original Greek words are eutopos and outopos. To the modern ear, they sound virtually identical unless you are used to hearing such differences Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: dystopia pallasathene #177074 05/21/08 12:39 AM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania The Pook old hand The Pook old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania  Originally Posted By: pallasathene I've just found this site and goingback through the archives, I found the entry for 'dystopia', and I would like to clarify where it comes from. It derives from 'dys' and 'topos', 'bad' and 'place', not from 'dys' and 'utopia'. 'Utopia' itself is not a Greek word; the inside joke is that the transliterated 'u' prefix is used for both 'ou' - not - and 'eu' - good, so utopia means both good place and no place. The original Greek words are eutopos and outopos. To the modern ear, they sound virtually identical unless you are used to hearing such differences Sir Thomas Moore probably intended the pun from the outset. He called it Utopia from (ou + topos) because it was a fictional place that did not exist, nor could it exist given human nature. It was "no place" on earth. But he was also no doubt fully aware people would take it to mean eu + topos, good place. I would pronounce eu the same as the English word 'you' or 'ewe' and ou as in soup - there is quite an easily discernible difference. But that is only because that is how I was taught ancient Greek. No one knows of course with any certainty exactly how Homer or St Paul spoke. I think modern Greek would pronounce outopia as ootopia ('oo' as in zoo) and eutopia as 'eftopia' or something like that. How those diphthongs were pronounced in Moore's day I have no idea. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: dystopia The Pook #177080 05/21/08 04:25 AM Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park of troy Carpal Tunnel of troy Carpal Tunnel Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park Utopia is a street (and neighborhood) in queens.. (and you might very well think it is no place..But St John's University is there.. go redmen!?) my other obsession Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. (have been... ------  Words from medicine  Beheading words  Meta-words  Words from classical mythology  Animal Safari  Words with unusual etymologies  Eponyms or words derived from p...  Loanwords from German  English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode Show Likes Link Copied to Clipboard View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary Forum Statistics Forums16 Topics13,913 Posts229,810 Members9,187 Most Online3,341 Dec 9th, 2011 Newest Members Karin, JeffMackwood, artguitar, Jim_W, Rdbuffalo 9,187 Registered Users Who's Online Now 0 members (), 458 guests, and 1 robot. Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod Top Posters(30 Days) wofahulicodoc 30 A C Bowden 15 LukeJavan8 5 Top Posters wwh 13,858 Faldage 13,803 Jackie 11,613 wofahulicodoc 10,852 tsuwm 10,542 LukeJavan8 9,944 Buffalo Shrdlu 7,210 AnnaStrophic 6,511 Wordwind 6,296 of troy 5,400

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