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Carpal Tunnel
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What does this expression mean to you?
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Pooh-Bah
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Generating one's own power or residing in an area off the electrical transmission system
dalehileman
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veteran
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Out of context, it might mean several things:
1. as Dale said above,
2. living without Internet, and
3. living in such a way as not to minimize the awareness of one's identity to government/industry.
The last definition is probably the most common. It's staggering the amount of information that is known about us as individuals - especially if you have a credit card, but even if you've ever bought a house or car or had an involvement with the law "somebody" has a record of it.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks, both of you. I know the meaning Daleh cites, and live that way to a small degree. I had never heard it before in its extended, metaphorical sense as per FF's 3. I'm interested in what the expression means to y'all, as individuals, not what the definition is.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Can one live "off the grid " to a small degree or is it rather an uncompromising way of life?
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Carpal Tunnel
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"no lines in, no lines out" The Road Washes Out in Spring used ironically, it might mean "outside of reality" - joe (griddled) friday
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I'm with Dale/FF #1, and with Anna in that I never heard no. 3.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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#3 should read?
3. living in such a way as not to minimize the awareness of one's identity to government/industry.
-ron o.
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Bran: Can one live "off the grid " to a small degree or is it rather an uncompromising way of life? Depends on your definition. That's one reason why I'm asking. We have a wood stove and a well. We can survive the winter. tsuwm: #3 should read?
3. living in such a way as not to minimize the awareness of one's identity to government/industry.I didn't even notice that. Getting feisty in your dotage, then? 
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Carpal Tunnel
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just trying to help anyone(?) who might have been addlepated.
-joe (feisty is as feisty does) friday
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old hand
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In some remote NZ areas I've heard of people tapping into phone and electricity lines so in a sense they could be 'living off the grid'. However, tsuwms poetic version is more akin to what I believe it to be. Off the beaten track, almost.
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journeyman
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Being a house husband, raising the kids, fixing the truck,and making sure the horses are properly shod while the Doctor wife plays with other peoples organs. Not the usual nucular
[sic{GWB}] family. ( Not me, good Lord, not a personal scenario)
Someone who makes rent, washing car windows and/or snatches watches off motorists arms at busy urban intersections during rush hour.
Last edited by R. Eastcourt; 11/15/2007 2:28 AM.
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#3 should read?
3. living in such a way as not to minimize the awareness of one's identity to government/industry.
-ron o. Yes! thanks, tff
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journeyman
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used ironically, it might mean "outside of reality" Another example that comes to mind, in both the literal and figurative senses of the expression, is Chris McCandless, the character in Jon Krakauer's book Into the Wild. He was really "out there".
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IMO, I think #3 is confusing means and ends with definitions. If you heard someone was living off the grid, you might assume that #3 was _why_ they were doing it, not _what_ they were doing.
There are other reasons to live off the grid (e.g. to be more green) and other ways to minimize govt awareness (e.g. only work for cash, use someone else's identity).
In the same way that "buying kosher foods" does not equal (have the definition of) "keeping kosher". I have a friend who buys kosher foods because she's a vegetarian and she trusts them not to slip in any gelatin or other animal by-products.
Last edited by Myridon; 11/15/2007 4:03 PM.
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>Into the Wild.<
This is quite the uncompromising way till the very end.
I've read tsuwms inbreng The Road Washes Out in Spring till page 23. A very poetic and pleasant read.This evening I'll hope to find out for what other life sustaining items the writer is going to prove dependent on the little nearby community. (so far only lamp oil). Maybe 'living off the grid 'needs at least a small community nearby.
(if taken further than water and heating [wood? Anna, you buy?]) :)All I can do is a year round of backyard blackberry jelly. But I buy the sugar.
The FF.Freind
3. living in such a way as not to minimize the awareness of one's identity to government/industry.Is this not the way a lot of illegal immigrants all over the world involuntarily live?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Penny! Good to see you, friend!  My longtime involovement with legal authorities in various forms, plus my even longer-time love of mystery books (and probably action movies, as well), makes my first thought (since as theFF said, no context was given) was people who deliberately make themselves untrackable by any governmental agency: work and pay for everything in cash, never use a credit card or their social security number. Kind of a tangent (gee I'm setting a precedent Jackie), but I recently read a real-life horror story about people who have postponed paying for something until a collection agency is called; then they pay it off but by that time the collection agency has sold their name/info. to another collection agency, and they then have to try and prove that they've paid...and that this can sometimes go on for years.
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...I'm interested in what the expression means to y'all, as individuals, not what the definition is. It sounds like temporary escape from Fake World. Outside of that context it seems to imply life without a paper trail.
ÅΓª╥┐↕§
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journeyman
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3. I'm interested in what the expression means to y'all, as individuals, not what the definition is.
1. A short-order cook.
2. Winning enough money at auto racing to pay the bills.
3. A consistent winner of Sudoku contests.
Last edited by R. Eastcourt; 11/16/2007 9:58 PM.
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No. 3 was the first thing I thought of but that's probably because our book club recently read The Traveler, by John Twelve Hawks. The book deals with living off the grid, but if you look up the author in Wikipedia, his bio (such as it is) is intriguing:
Biography
Both John Twelve Hawks and his American publisher state that he has never met his editor and that he communicates using the Internet and an untraceable satellite phone, usually employing a voice scrambler. No photograph of Twelve Hawks has ever appeared and all biographical information about his background is based on four sources:
* a 2005 article in USA Today
* a 2005 interview by Rob Bedford in SFF World
* a 2006 interview published in Germany in Der Spiegel
* a portion of a 2007 London Telegraph article about popular writers
Twelve Hawks' initial biography on the Random House website was only one line: "John Twelve Hawks lives off the grid." At some point in 2007, that line disappeared and was replaced with "John Twelve Hawks is the author of the New York Times bestseller, The Traveler.
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journeyman
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Living off the grid.
Living; off the grid.
A woman without her man is lost.
A woman; without her, man is lost.
-bill ( always snooping for the elusive semi-colon ) gannon; et al
Last edited by R. Eastcourt; 11/17/2007 2:33 AM.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Penny! Good to see you, friend! My longtime involovement with legal authorities in various forms, plus my even longer-time love of mystery books (and probably action movies, as well), makes my first thought (since as theFF said, no context was given) was people who deliberately make themselves untrackable by any governmental agency: work and pay for everything in cash, never use a credit card or their social security number. This is the only definition of "living off the grid" that I was aware of. Why would you want to live without electricity?
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Why would you want to live without electricity? [/quote]
Because you were reared, Amish.
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Penny! Good to see you, friend! My longtime involovement with legal authorities in various forms, plus my even longer-time love of mystery books (and probably action movies, as well), makes my first thought (since as theFF said, no context was given) was people who deliberately make themselves untrackable by any governmental agency: work and pay for everything in cash, never use a credit card or their social security number. This is the only definition of "living off the grid" that I was aware of. Why would you want to live without electricity? not necessarily without electricity, Bel, just not buying it from some big utilities company. having a wind generator or solar panels, etc. btw, I just want to re-iterate, I have never heard it used any other way than in a utilities/electrical sense, so this other usage of hiding from the government is interesting.
formerly known as etaoin...
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not necessarily without electricity, Bel, just not buying it from some big utilities company. having a wind generator or solar panels, etc.
btw, I just want to re-iterate, I have never heard it used any other way than in a utilities/electrical sense, so this other usage of hiding from the government is interesting.
Me too, eta, which is why I brought it up. I find this discussion fascinating! Thank you all for your input. I'd like to be more off the grid for two reasons: a) We get a lot of power outages here and I hate that; 2) I'd like to use less energy and be less wasteful in general. [/teetering on the political]
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>>>not necessarily without electricity, Bel, just not buying it from some big utilities company. having a wind generator or solar panels, etc.
Ah, I see. It sounds nice, because you don't have to worry about black-outs, and such, but isn't all of that very expensive?
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>>>not necessarily without electricity, Bel, just not buying it from some big utilities company. having a wind generator or solar panels, etc. The idea is fine when you live in a free standing house and can make your own decisions. Towns, big cities, where most of the energy goes to have to deal with socio-political management. But here we would end up for real in a socio- political argument. I'll stick to the blackberry jam.
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>>>not necessarily without electricity, Bel, just not buying it from some big utilities company. having a wind generator or solar panels, etc.
Ah, I see. It sounds nice, because you don't have to worry about black-outs, and such, but isn't all of that very expensive? not in the long run is the idea. besides being healthier for the environment (in lots of cases).
formerly known as etaoin...
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Interesting that in "living off the grid" and "living off the land", two concepts that fit well together socio-politically, the phrase "living off" has two diametrically opposed meanings.
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Another grid - related feed from the future: Canberra
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Another grid - related feed from the future: Canberra that's pretty wild. not sure how I feel about that.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Another grid - related feed from the future: Canberra that's pretty wild. not sure how I feel about that. I'll tell you what is wild! The federal government invades your home and explodes your appliances and a fellow citizen named etaoin is not sure how he feels about that. Now, folks, that is scary. 
Last edited by themilum; 12/01/2007 4:45 PM.
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well, you know milo, sometimes people just have to be hit over the head with common sense.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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bah Pronunciation: (bä, ba), [key] —interj. (an exclamation of contempt or annoyance): Bah! Humbug! Random House Unabridged This dictionary fully supports this point of vieuw. 
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Pooh-Bah
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I ahev always understood "living off the grid" to primarily refer to the electrical grid, the overall netorwkr of power dsitribution. As others have said, it doesn't mean living without electricity, but simply making your own from wind or solar power or other alternative sources.
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stranger
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Interesting that in "living off the grid" and "living off the land", two concepts that fit well together socio-politically, the phrase "living off" has two diametrically opposed meanings. That is why, not having heard the grid phrase before, I would have interpreted it in analogy to "living off the land".
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I've tried to find a verb that could be used in the same way.
No, example wasn't good. Maybe it's exceptional.
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