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Jo! Gonna hang around a while?
It took me a bit (led astray by assuming it was a Scots variant of "freakin'"). It's a play on vegan, na?
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A blend of fruitarian and vegan, eh M(r)s witch of pendle? Welcome back, btw. EDIT. On reading the article, I see it's actually a blend of fruitcake and vegan, embodying GBS's words: "One who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, and one who remains a socialist at thirty has no head."
Last edited by sjmaxq; 07/04/2007 10:28 PM.
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Not to go off-thread or anything,  but are we sure this quote is from Shaw?
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Discuss the roots of the word, or the meaning of the movement?
tempus edax rerum
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are we sure this quote is from Shaw?Usually attributed to Churchill, it's supposedly by François Guizot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." Guizot was a minister under Louis Philippe, the citizen king of France. It seems to have been revived in the 20th century in its modern form by Clemenceau.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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I believe Max is just editorializing. On the other hand, these freegans, far from rejecting capitalism, are depending on it. Without the culture that would throw food away because it's more costly to keep it than it is to dispose of it they would starve.
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I believe Max is just editorializing. You're absolutely right. The quote in question is widely attributed to Shaw as well. I first came across it in a list of "his" quotes, and googling for it with his name is quite fruitful. Which is every bit as definitive and authoritative as any Wikipedia article.
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Which is every bit as definitive and authoritative as any Wikipedia article.
Ah, yes, I had forgotten what low esteem the Wikipedia is held in in these quarters. I am sorry, please excuse the laziness on my part. If it's any consolation, the article linked to was just to give one an idea of who Guizot was. The quotation is not mentioned in the article, but googling Francois Guizot turns up plenty of attributions of the little folk meme in question. If I am not mistaken G B Shaw remained a socialist into late life, and, so, the statement seems out of character, though, I suppose he could've meant it ironically.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Which is every bit as definitive and authoritative as any Wikipedia article.
Ah, yes, I had forgotten what low esteem the Wikipedia is held in in these quarters. I am sorry, please excuse the laziness on my part. If it's any consolation, the article linked to was just to give one an idea of who Guizot was. Mea culpa - I hadn't even checked the link in your earlier post, and had no idea it was to a Wikipedia article. My comment was intended to be a self-deprecating concession of the likelihood of my Shavian attribution being in error, not a shot at your Guizot reference.
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I had forgotten what low esteem the Wikipedia is held in by some
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Darned right. I do quite well making a fool of myself all on my own; I don't want to pass along some bit of "information" from there, only to have it shot down by a quote from a real authority.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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My comment was intended to be a self-deprecating concession of the likelihood of my Shavian attribution being in error, not a shot at your Guizot reference.
Ah, mea majore culpa. Some much typing, so little communication. On the bright side, how often does one get to use the lovely adjectival form of Shaw's name? OK. Back to lurking.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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[i] On the bright side, how often does one get to use the lovely adjectival form of Shaw's name? It even kinda rhymes with his political/philosophical bent, which he described not as Socialist but as Fabian. A Shavian Fabian was he.
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A Shavian Fabian was he.They're still about, and even have a web site.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Discuss the roots of the word, or the meaning of the movement?
Yes. 
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I believe Max is just editorializing. On the other hand, these freegans, far from rejecting capitalism, are depending on it. Without the culture that would throw food away because it's more costly to keep it than it is to dispose of it they would starve. I agree. If they really wanted to absent themselves from capitalism, as Weissman states, they shouldn't be all a-twitter at finding a television (see beginning of article). Just because the person is the second owner, it doesn't change the provenance of the item (the place of manufacture) or whether or not the employees were paid reasonable wages. A five-year-old child that is used in slave labour to make a carpet doesn't get any more money because you've picked the carpet up in the garbage. Or am I misunderstanding Weissman's quote?
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So much of what we waste is out of convenience or a desire to only have the latest and coolest. At least the freegans/dumpster divers/moochers are helping to cut down on waste and unnecessary use of raw materials by reusing perfectly good working products. It seems like consumerism has gone beyond the need to have and is now an addiction to getting, to actually purchasing.
Although I must say, food from dumpsters is pushing it.
I wonder whether they do good and wise and eco-friendly things with the money they save or if they are saving up to buy hummers and leaf blowers.
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...I wonder whether they do good and wise and eco-friendly things with the money they save or if they are saving up to buy hummers and leaf blowers.
I think that if they are eating food from dumpsters, they are most likely street people.
It is amazing how much disdain a street person can have for society and feel haughty about their choice to live on the street.
I saw a documentary about street people in Portland, Oregon, and was amazed to hear how many of them said they chose to live that way because they did not want to be sheep and live in a 9 to 5 working-class world.
They were free, they said, to do as they chose. The choice being begging on street corners from 9 to 5, but hey, a self-justification is a self-justification.
The most surprising was that they felt entitled to hand-outs; feeling that the people that did not give them money were bad people.
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There is a difference between a homeless person and a freegan. Most freegans do have a house. They choose not to purchase goods that they can find second hand or free. Most of them have 'real' jobs, 9-5 or otherwise.
tempus edax rerum
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I don't know Maven. I have a lot of trouble believing that people who hold down viable jobs "forage through supermarket rubbish" as the article states - even to eat the slightly bruised produce or just-expired canned goods.
I believe people recycle household articles - I see enough folks driving around in pick-up trucks on the week before and the week after moving day. In Québec, Canada, moving day is July 1st so pretty much all of the big stuff winds up on the curb during that period. Very few of the items actually wind up in the big-garbage truck.
But past-due food, I don't buy it as a lifestyle "choice".
Last edited by belMarduk; 07/10/2007 1:19 AM.
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There are a number of other references to freegan lifestyles--this isn't something brand new. It's even referenced in books...50 Degrees Below by Kim Stanley Robinson. Cultures on other continents eat things American will not touch, why shouldn't a group within America be willing to do so as well? Pulling food from a rubbish bin is not my choice, but I do know that I have salad dressing in my fridge that's past the 'best by' date...And I'll pour it on salad with little concern.
tempus edax rerum
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