|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
My fascination with birds is multifold.
One aspect of bird behavior that I have wondered about for several years is the decision-making process that is involved in the flights of winter feeding flocks.
Will you kind-hearted Awaders help me by expanding this study to what you see?
Thanks. Simply note the direction that flocks of non-migratory birds are flying in the morning, and then note the direction that they fly at dust to roost.
My observation is that they fly into the sun on both occasions. That is, they fly eastward towards their feeding grounds in the morning, and then fly westward to roost for the night. Why?
Would you please check on your birds this Feburary and tell me what you see?
Milo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
Start of a conjecture: see para 2Like some insects, some birds use polarized light to assist in navigation. Insects tend to be less active at midday, because there is less polarized light when the sun is high.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
Start of a conjecture:
see para 2
Like some insects, some birds use polarized light to assist in navigation. Insects tend to be less active at midday, because there is less polarized light when the sun is high.
Yes, inselpeter, but you and your url don't address my question, namely, is it your observation that non-migrating gatherings of birds fly east in the morning and west in the afternoon?
The question is simple...address it. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
time is short, and starts are starts Anyway, I find your observation interesting, but I can't myself confirm it. I was wondering about a why. As to the rest, I tend to frown most at midday. 
Last edited by inselpeter; 02/03/2006 3:04 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Friday I saw three or four skeins of geese at about 8:45 AM. They were all flying mostly west with a variable north component.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Geese don't count, Faldage. That isn't to say that they can't count, but geese don't roost in trees. At least they don't down south when they are on vacation.
And Inselpeter, Yes, I think that the polarized vision of birds influences many aspects of their behavior. One such influnce could be the effects of polarized light as the sun slowly drops beneath the horizon - the green flash of cruse ships. Is this flash the signal for the flock to rush in unison to the safety of the overnight roosting trees? Or are they simply responding to a subtle movement of a leader with their keen eyesight as Maverick has suggested.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Quote:
Geese don't count, Faldage. That isn't to say that they can't count, but geese don't roost in trees. At least they don't down south when they are on vacation.
Din't nobody say nothing bout nobody roosting in no trees! And we have geese around here all year long so, far's I kin tell our geese ain't no migratories.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
I'm curious, what size are the birds in question? Upstate, we have mostly chickadees and yellow finches, as well as humming birds and some larger species: jays, morning doves, and an occasional cardinal. The vista isn't large enough to observe the movements you're talking about -- at dawn, they just appear in the trees at the periphery of the yard, and fly to the feeder near the house and back all day long, depending on who's outside. This tropism would be interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Hmm. After thinking about it I agree I'm wrong. I confess I don't know much about the habits of geese except to know that they don't fly around just for the hell of it. If you can, Mister Faldage, please find out where they go during the day. It would be good to know if they sleep around or return faithfully to their favorite, wet, cold, nests at night. And please, continue reporting the hour and compass direction of their daily flights. Geese are birds too, you know. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Dear iselpeter.
Black birds of any kind. Or mixed flocks, searching the countryside for food in winter. You've seen the breatakingly beautiful patterns as they fly against the clear winter sky, splitting off and recombining in a airal ballet choregraphed by the gods.
And so within that dance lies our query...
What bird, or what mechanism, determines the direction that the group will take in their communal search for food?
The tropism is indeed interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
The Canadian geese that over-winter all over New York State are, I think, migratory. But they've discovered lawns, which seem to provide habitat without bother, and so they settle in. Maybe they've just shortened their route of migration?
Yes, blackbirds. There were huge flocks of them where I went to college, not too far from here. Beautiful and unsettling. I remember particularly the calls of their thousands abruptly ending as I walked past the old oak perch, the clatter replaced by woosh of wings. Unfortunately, I only noticed their mad circling, shifting ink on grey winter skies, and no sun to follow.
Last edited by inselpeter; 02/05/2006 3:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
Yes, blackbirds. There were huge flocks of them where I went to college, not too far from here. Beautiful and unsettling. I remember particularly the calls of their thousands abruptly ending as I walked past the old oak perch, the clatter replaced by woosh of wings. Unfortunately, I only noticed their mad circling, shifting ink on grey winter skies, and no sun to follow.
Keenly observed and poetically said, inselpeter.
But remember that birds see light differently than we humans.
Their vision is thought to operate beyond ours and further in the ultra violet * spectrum of light.
Your grey winter skies might be their romantic sunset. 
Last edited by themilum; 02/05/2006 5:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
This morning as I drove though the gloom of a cold driving rain I was surprised to see a wavy band of several hundred birds crossing above the highway and headed due East towards the bedroom community of Inglenook. This group of blackbirds I have labeled the "Boyles bunch". I see this flock of blackbirds more than any other group because my travel schedule neatly coincides with their morning flight.
On clear and warmer days their flights have been more exuberant; forming subgroups and flying in curving sweeps and proforming nifty flips before reconvening as a single moving flock.
The Boyles bunch always fly to the east in the morning to feed in Inglenook. There they feed on the acorns that have been rejected by the fat squirrels who live in the manicured yards of the Inglenookians, who hardly notice the birds intrusion.
Last edited by themilum; 02/07/2006 8:11 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389 |
Two years ago, last Thanksgiving weekend, we were driving back from Pennsylvania and went through Hartford Connecticut on the way home. There were thousands and thousands of crows perched on every possible spot; on light poles, the lower buildings, bridge rails etc. in addition to the ones flying around looking for a spot. I'd never seen so many in one place. It was a bit disorienting to see them in the center of the city, but a wonderful sight. I don't know what was up.
A couple of hours before that, as we were heading East across New Jersey, there were many dozens of very large flocks of Canadian geese heading Northwest. Why, I don't know, but vastly more than I'd ever seen in any sky.
About two hours later, just a mile or so from our home in Westernmost Rhode Island, an owl flew across our path as we drove down the dark, semi-rural road. We think it was a Barred Owl. The best bird day yet.
This past Saturday, as we drove by a section of the Situate Reservoir in Rhode Island, we saw a Bald Eagle [Haliaeetus leucocephalus]. It was a couple of hundred yards out on the ice, and a small crowd was gathered at the spillway to check it out. It had just finished eating, according to one gentleman who had been there for a half hour or so. There were pairs of binoculars in use, including ours. The ID was positive. There have been sightings near there, but not very many and our first.
I don't have a Life List, but I think that this is a good one to start it with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
on a late evening return trip from Toronto, my friend and I saw geese flocks numbering in the thousands. one flock could still be seen in the air from nearly ten miles distance. it looked like a rip in the sky.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Wow! "...a rip in the sky"!
Lucky you, etaoin.
Last edited by themilum; 02/09/2006 6:22 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
I felt lucky. it was really quite beautiful, and amazing.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I love seeing the great migrations of geese. I always feel elated to see them. I find a lot of solace and peace in the fact that no matter what happens, the geese go and the geese come back. It seems to put everything in perspective - as you head into dark days, you know that the bright days will come. Or, if you will, life will go on and tomorrow is a different day. But maybe that's just me. Hubby kinda rolls his eyes when he sees me looking up at the migrating geese in contentment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Gee Belmar, you put into words the strong feelings of awe that are engendered in most of us as we watch a large flock of geese flying overhead. Truly, as you say, the seasonal movement of geese flying against the backdrop of the open sky is a high moment in life. A special union between ourselves and our world that is instantly seen by all who have souls that can see. Tell your husband to go build a box.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Nah. Hubby, the very sensible accountant-type always smiles lovingly while he rolls his eyes, not quite understanding why this or that makes me happy, but loving me for the quirkyness anyway, so I think I’ll keep him. >>> A special union between ourselves and our world that is instantly seen by all who have souls that can see. Very poetically and beautifully said, Milum. Merci.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
One autumn day my cousin (in Alberta) was watching 2 separate V's of Canada geese travelling in opposite directions. Apparently they weren't watching though as a couple of geese collided head on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I've seen V's going in different directions but I've never seen any geese collide. Can geese be embarrassed? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
what ridiculous, anserine behavior.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
My Mom said they should have honked.
(and now you know where I get my sense of humor)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
HA! You silly goose, you!
(and now the extent of mine though tsuwm does win with his wordy one)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Saw some geese Friday morning about 8:45. They were pointed west but they were moving north. There was a bit of a breeze out of the south.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
Saw some geese Friday morning about 8:45. They were pointed west but they were moving north. There was a bit of a breeze out of the south.
Not to question your keen powers of observation, Faldage, but it is odd that a slight breeze could blow a bird as big as a goose ninety degrees off the direction that it was pointed.
I'd sooner believe that you took a wee morning nip against the damp bitter cold than believe that birds fly crooked.
But I'm no expert on birds or drinking.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Mebbe you don't keep up with the weather reports from Damyankia, but the slight breezes were on the close order of 50 mph. We had significant power outages across the area. Some New Englanders are still out of power. The geese were trying to fly west.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Wow! Fifty miles an hour. When a wind that strong visits Dixieland we take Greyhound buses to excape. Faldage do you think it possible that the geese that you saw the other morning had been turned around 360 degrees by the wind and were trying to fly East instead of West?  Maybeso?
Last edited by themilum; 02/20/2006 10:27 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Mayhap we can toss this datum in the holding tank and call it anomalous till we have more to work with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Toss if you like, brother Faldage, but my observations here in Alabama are consistent. All observations made by me this winter found that flocking birds invariably fly towards the rising sun in the morning, and then fly towards the setting sun at night.
Moreover, in watching the actions of roving bands of blackbirds I have discovered a remarkable aspect of the collective behavior of these birds that is new to our understanding of the decision making process of all animals.
I will explain this remarkable discovery later.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
My observations here in New York are also consistent. I wonder if my sample is any more delocalized than is yours. Have you been traveling about in many areas of Alabama or have you noticed the behavior of a few birds in but one small area?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
It is an interesting topic. As well as compass direction, are you able to compare the location of major food and water sources vs night roosting sites?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
My observations here in New York are also consistent. I wonder if my sample is any more delocalized than is yours. Have you been traveling about in many areas of Alabama or have you noticed the behavior of a few birds in but one small area?
How dare you question my observational methodology? Did I not send you the Birmingham Black Barons baseball cap that I promised two years ago?
Of course, my sample is limited. Can I help it if my sample is centered on the early birds that pass over my route to work at dawn?
But non-the-less, if limited, my morning birds are consistent . Not once this season have they flown any direction but towards the rising sun.
(If you've lost the cap I'll send you another one.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
It is an interesting topic. As well as compass direction, are you able to compare the location of major food and water sources vs night roosting sites?
Not exactly Zed, I simply assumed that when flocks of blackbirds are flying in the morning that they are not out to steal hubcaps but to eat. But I do know that they can be seen feeding on the acorns of suburban lawns, and in the direction of their morning flights lie what in Alabama passes for suburbia.
I will report back to you the suspicions I have about their doings in these neighborhoods after I venture out into them this Saturday.
See you Sunday.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Quote:
Quote:
My observations here in New York are also consistent. I wonder if my sample is any more delocalized than is yours. Have you been traveling about in many areas of Alabama or have you noticed the behavior of a few birds in but one small area?
How dare you question my observational methodology? Did I not send you the Birmingham Black Barons baseball cap that I promised two years ago?
Of course, my sample is limited. Can I help it if my sample is centered on the early birds that pass over my route to work at dawn?
But non-the-less, if limited, my morning birds are consistent . Not once this season have they flown any direction but towards the rising sun.
(If you've lost the cap I'll send you another one.)
That's right. You did not send me a Birmingham Black Barons cap. And the one I did not lose I bought from the Cooperstown Ball Cap Co. so you don't have to not send me another one.
My birds are equally consistent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
How on Earth does a blackbird crack open an acorn?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
> I simply assumed that when flocks of blackbirds are flying in the morning that they are not out to steal hubcaps
ah, you're observing rural blackbirds!
> How on Earth does a blackbird crack open an acorn?
That's nothing, you should see it try to get Norton of its computer! ;]
Last edited by maverick; 03/24/2006 2:34 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Heck, like a kid with spinach and cake I couldn't wait untill Saturday and so I hurried through the Inglenook neighborhood this afternoon spying on the blackbirds in order to expose the modus operandi of their hitherto secret cult.
And here is the skinny...
Blackbirds vote with their stomachs.
Winter feeding flocks reach an optimum size by simple accretion. That is to say that the larger the feeding flock the more efficient the collective eating machine is in ravaging the countryside and protecting its members from predation.
This communist structure is self rejuvenating; the specialization of individual birds is temporal and does not require a "pecking order" in order to effect roles that require the individual to forgo feeding.
In a nutshell, the strong and well fed bird operates from a innate biological imperative to watch for danger while the others feed.
It follows that within the larger flocks there are more sentinels availabe who are willing to watch from the tops of tall trees and then to fly to other nearby feeding grounds after a suitable time has passed.
The direction of the movement of the flock is controlled by a visual "critical mass" mechanism that dictates that flock movemnt is always towards an accretionary population of the future.
And then the gang breaks up in the Spring and they become husbands.
Last edited by themilum; 03/25/2006 1:59 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
