In reply to:

but the pale refers specifically to the wall about Dublin...a few years past 1000... that keep the irish out of dublin

Helen - a note on "the pale" - it also refers to that area of "Russia" where the Jews were forced to live during the reign of, let's see, I'm supposed to know this... here, after a bit of quick research on my bookshelves, I have found this:
After the partition of Poland, the Jews of Russia consituted the largest Jewish community in the world. Their legal situation during the nineteenth century was entirely subject to the capreciousness of the czarist regime. A tradionalist czar like Nicholas I, who wanted toconfine the Jews to The Pale of Settlement, interpreted "integration" as "conversion." emphasis mine
---from A Historical Atlas of the Jewish People edited by Eli Barnavi (Shocken Books, NY 1992).

And I have a map of the area, so if anyone would like to see it, I can scan and send it - btw, is there anyway to include a small (or large) image in either a posting OR in a private message (sent via the board)???

I suppose that the 'idea' of creating 'The Pale of Settlement' came from what happened in Ireland! So, once again, we see that there is nothing new under the SUN!

Sorry if I interjected toooooooo much history into this posting, but once again, since I'm a tour guide with no tourists to guide, I feel the need to 'practice' and you guys get the 'benefit'[I-can-see-that-you-are-thrilled emoticon]...

Shoshannah


suzanne pomeranz, tourism consultant jerusalem, israel - suztours@gmail.com