|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
From Chapter LV. I think we did briefly touch on this at one point:The unquestionable evidence of language attests the descent of the Bulgarians from the original stock of the Sclavonian, or more properly Slavonian, race; (7) and the kindred bands of Servians, Bosnians, Rascians, Croatians, Walachians, (8) &c., followed either the standard or the example of the leading tribe. From the Euxine to the Adriatic, in the state of captives, or subjects, or allies, or enemies, of the Greek empire, they overspread the land; and the national appellation of the SLAVES (9) has been degraded by chance or malice from the signification of glory to that of servitude. (10) Footnote 9: Jordan subscribes to the well-known and probable derivation from Slava, laus, gloria, a word of familiar use in the different dialects and parts of speech, and which forms the termination of the most illustrious names, (de Originibus Sclavicis, pars. i. p. 40, pars. iv. p. 101, 102) Footnote 10: This conversion of a national into an appellative name appears to have arisen in the viiith century, in the Oriental France, where the princes and bishops were rich in Sclavonian captives, not of the Bohemian, (exclaims Jordan,) but of Sorabian race. From thence the word was extended to the general use, to the modern languages, and even to the style of the last Byzantines, (see the Greek and Latin Glossaries and Ducange.) The confusion of the "**", or Servians, with the Latin Servi, was still more fortunate and familiar, (Constant. Porphyr. de Administrando, Imperio, c. 32, p. 99.) The ** is in the online edition of "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" ( http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume2/chap55.htm#Bulgarians)and represents Sigma epsilon rho beta lambda omicron iota. Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
From: http://www.etymonline.com/s7etym.htmSlav - 14c., Sclave, from M.L. Sclavus, from late Gk. Sklabos, from O.Slav. Sloveninu "Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community. Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, infl. by Fr. and Ger. Slave. slave - c.1300, from O.Fr. esclave, from M.L. Sclavus "slave," originally "Slav," so called because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples. The verb meaning "work like a slave" is first recorded 1719. Slavery is from 1551; slavish "servilely imitative" is from 1753. O.E. Wealh "Briton" also began to be used in the sense of "serf, slave" c.850; and Skt. dasa-, which can mean "slave," is apparently connected to dasyu- "pre-Aryan inhabitant of India." More common O.E. words for slave were þeow (related to þeowian "to serve") and þræl (see thrall). The Slavic words for "slave" (Rus. rab, Serbo-Croatian rob, O.C.S. rabu) are from O.Slav. *orbu, from the PIE base *orbh- (also source of orphan) the ground sense of which seems to be "thing that changes allegiance" (in the case of the slave, from himself to his master). The Slavic word is also the source of robot. I find it surprising that the terms used by the Greeks or Romans would have given way so completely to this relatively late word.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Good Lord--you read hundreds and hundreds of pages that were written like that? I never knew you were a masochist. I'll put below what I got out of that whole thing:
The unquestionable evidence of language attests the descent of the Bulgarians from the original stock of the Sclavonian, or more properly Slavonian, race; and the kindred bands of Servians, Bosnians, Rascians, Croatians, Walachians, followed either the standard or the example of the leading tribe. From the Euxine to the Adriatic, in the state of captives, or subjects, or allies, or enemies, of the Greek empire, they overspread the land; and the national appellation of the SLAVES has been degraded by chance or malice from the signification of glory to that of servitude.
Jordan subscribes to the well-known and probable derivation from ... a word of familiar use in the different dialects and parts of speech, and which forms the termination of the most illustrious names
This conversion ... into an appellative name appears to have arisen in the century, in the ..., where the princes and bishops were rich in Sclavonian captives, not of the Bohemian, (exclaims ...,) but of ... race. From thence the word was extended to the general use, to the modern languages, and even to the style of the last Byzantines, (see the Greek and Latin Glossaries and ....) The confusion of the ..., or Servians, with the Latin ..., was still more fortunate and familiar, ...
I am not fond of footnotes--both they and the numbers are distracting to me. I have no idea what &c means; I have no idea why laus and gloria were there; I have never heard of Ducange; and Constant. Porphyr. de Administrando, Imperio is completely meaningless to me, as are the names I deleted. viiith, I finally figured out, but that's more work than I want to go through when I'm reading. Why the heck didn't he put 8th. and make it easier? I don't want to have to stop and count i's.
Now--I very much admire your intellect, as well as your persistence--anyone's, for that matter, who could and would plow through this. That masochist remark was really for me--or would be, were I to even try. I would rather read 50 romance novels than one volume of this; or even be subjected to listening to jazz. [ducking] I love learning things, but not when it means I have to research every other word, to try and figure out what the writer's trying to tell me. If it were written more like, 'The Bulgarians' language attests to the fact that they are descended from the original stock of the Slavonian race; and the kindred bands of Servians, Bosnians, Rascians, Croatians, Walachians followed the pattern of the leading tribe. From the Euxine to the Adriatic they spread across the land, as captives, subjects, allies, or enemies, of the Greek empire; and the ethnic name of the SLAVES has been degraded by chance or malice from the signification of glory to that of servitude.', THEN I might read it. I realize that I am probably looking like a fool, gainsaying and oh horrors correcting a powerful icon. But something like that is pure torture, for me. I don't have to have all my explanations simple and basic, but I see no reason to go through something that is that complicated for me, either. If anyone can sit down and zip right through that, more power to you; but it wouldn't be chosen reading for me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Well, I didn't really zip, but it wasn't difficult for the most part. Some of the footnotes were interesting, some were just the original Latin or Greek of what he was saying in the main text. But the whole passage is much easier if you've read the rest of the book, or the chapter at least, because you know what he's talking about.
&c = et cetera
laus gloria, were glosses for the Slavonic word slava
Constant. Porphyr. de Administrando Imperio, a reference to Constantine Porphyrogenitus's book "On the Administration of the Empire".
The Sorabians were a people mentioned earlier.
viiith, people were more familiar with Roman numbers in those days, but I took it in at a glance.
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,345
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
718
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
