#92888 - 01/22/03 07:46 AM
Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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I know this does not apply to everyone but it seemed a good place to post it. There's a group at McGill University doing a survey on English word usage in Canada. All you have to do is email them at canadian_english@mcgill.ca and ask for a survey to be sent to you by mail, and they will gladly send you as many copies as you ask for. I know there are a few other Canadians on Board (belMarduk, boronia, modestgoddess) and I thought this would be the easiest way to get the word out. I've already done the survey myself and it was fun. There isn't much info on the McGill website but I originally heard about it on CBC Radio. Anyway, all I can find at McGill is the prof's short information page: http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/linguistics/dept/faculty.html#cboberg and a short, technical description of the project: http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/linguistics/dept/projects.html#cb2-2005But I thought this group might have a higher-than-normal interest in completing such a survey.
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#92889 - 01/22/03 10:20 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
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Thanks Bean! Sounds like fun. I've sent for my copy
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#92892 - 01/23/03 02:36 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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it isn't cold enough or there's just so little snow.Not that we-all wouldn't love to have youse join us up here, but if these are the only problems, perhaps we could somehow arranged to have some of the snow and cold sent down your way...? No, really! Take my cold and snow....Please! 
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#92895 - 01/23/03 02:40 PM
Post deleted by Wordwind
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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#92896 - 01/23/03 02:43 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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Bean, thanks for this. I've emailed for about half-a-dozen copies of the survey, if they care to send that many....I looked at the description, but, and it seemed to be more to do with pronunciation by first-year students from across Canada? with particular note taken of how they pronounce vowels? How does a survey, filled out by people across the country, help out with this, I wonder? Anyway, lookin' fwd to gettin' my copy/ies!
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#92899 - 01/23/03 03:40 PM
Post deleted by Wordwind
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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#92900 - 01/23/03 06:24 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11578
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
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Better watch it, DubDub--you'll have all the Vermonterites comin' after ya fer callin' their home state Hell!  Augh, I am absolutely green with envy! I wanna move up North!! (But I'd have to leave my family behind; but maybe not my son if I move to Alaska.) 60" of snow! Minus degrees! WAIL!!!!! You lucky DOGS!
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#92901 - 01/23/03 09:30 PM
Re: fun in the sun
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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erm, would somebody please take Jackie's temperature?  actually, it's supposed to get above zero tomorrow. but only for a little while...
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formerly known as etaoin...
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#92902 - 01/24/03 01:47 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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stranger
Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 12
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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Is it true they grow bananas in Vancouver?
As far as I know, they don't grow any here, no. But I did hear a few days ago that we might not have any bananas in ten years or so. Not sure why, since I only quickly skimmed the article before leaving to go out somewhere.
"Did you eat another dictionary?" -- what an online friend said to me once
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"Did you eat another dictionary?" -- what an online friend said to me once
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#92903 - 01/24/03 06:16 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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I think the link was about the broader scope of the project. But Buddy-who-is-conducting-the-survey was interviewed on CBC and was asking for anyone interested in doing the word-usage part of the survey to contact him. Hence my post above. There does not yet seem to be a website specifically for the word-usage questionnaire.
And as for the bananas, Flam_X, I think it was something about a fungus which could kill them all, something like the famous potato blight in Ireland which wrecked every potato in Ireland (more or less) because they were all genetically the same.
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#92904 - 01/25/03 10:25 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
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Dear Anna(Betsy)Strophic,
Here's the letter I received in reply to my request for the suvey:
Hi Ann,
Thanks for your e-mail.
We'd be happy to send you a copy of our survey, or several, if you know other people around your area who might enjoy filling them out. It's often fun to compare respones with family, friends, or co-workers. It would actually be extremely interesting for us to get some responses from the
New Hampshire area, so we could see how word usage differs across the international boundary. Just let us know how many surveys you'd like, and we'll get them in the mail right away.
So there you go! I am still in God's Country where the temperature has been hovering around zero fahrenheit for a week. A few windy days and it was about 15 below (wind chill) !!!! Poor Pearl (Bichon) is getting cabin fever!
Meawhile graka' jbdlwieuw, vbwkoluqyduyegf ,zbbkbbxz bdjkq is beginning to make sense to me!
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#92906 - 01/26/03 11:19 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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In reply to:
And as for the bananas, Flam_X, I think it was something about a fungus which could kill them all, something like the famous potato blight in Ireland which wrecked every potato in Ireland (more or less) because they were all genetically the same.
How can bananas all be genetically the same when we've got something like 20 different kinds of banana in Indonesia alone?
Bingley
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Bingley
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#92909 - 01/30/03 10:09 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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20 different kinds of banana
I read that the domestic banana - the edible variety - is susceptible to the aforementioned fungus (black something-or-other). Wild bananas are naturally immune - but they also have honkin' big hard seeds that render them reproducible, but inedible. That's wot I read, anyway....
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#92911 - 01/30/03 10:46 PM
Re: Canadian English survey
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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Jackie, YOU make ME larf out loud! (but I dislike the abbreviation LOL so I'se not gonna use it!) (love you, woman!)
So mebbe this means your nose is nice and clean inside now, after its tea enema....Or perhaps the only result was that now, all you can smell is tea...?!
I did the nose trick with grape juice once when I was small. It dyed the inside of my nose purple.
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#92912 - 01/31/03 12:31 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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In reply to:
20 different kinds of banana
I read that the domestic banana - the edible variety
I meant 20 different kinds of edible banana, though some need cooking first. I think pisang raja (king bananas) have er.. honkin' big hard seeds but I don't remember seeing any in other types.
Bingley
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Bingley
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#92913 - 01/31/03 05:49 AM
Post deleted by Wordwind
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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#92914 - 01/31/03 06:05 AM
Re: honkin' big hard seeds
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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You don't use honkin' to mean big? I thought that was more or less universal slang.
"Jaysus Murphy, that was a big honkin' truck that nearly smashed into us!!!!!!!"
EDIT: Or honkin' big. And truck was a bad example because they actually honk. How about "honkin' big steak"?
(or something like that)
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#92917 - 01/31/03 06:18 AM
Post deleted by Wordwind
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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#92921 - 01/31/03 09:00 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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USns and others don't (yet) know the expression?I use this all the time. (well, not all the time...…) 
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formerly known as etaoin...
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#92923 - 01/31/03 09:28 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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Do you Canadian geese have to use honkin' + big together to indicate that something is very big or can honkin' solo by itself?
Also, is honkin' used with any word other than big?
I think it's a very funny word and I plan on using it today--if I can find a place--at the faculty lunch table just to see whether anybody notices. And I suppose the word developed in Canada because something that honks is loud. So, if something is big but in a big, big way, that something "honks" its bigness.
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#92926 - 01/31/03 11:57 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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Sometimes I can't believe the nits we pick here! mg uses, in an offhand way, a little expression, two words long, and lo and behold! we find out that it's not well-understood everywhere. This is what I love about the Board - we discover that all these things we take for granted are not the same everywhere, and that's what makes life interesting. My Canadian Oxford says honking: also honkin' N. Amer. slang very large So apprently it's not strictly Canadian. HOWEVER In looking up honking I ran across hork spit, the act of spitting, according to the dictionary, with the additional qualifier added by me that it usually refers to the type of spitting preceded by the sound "hork" which is marked as Canadian slang. Well, that's another one I thought everyone knew. Live and learn. Edit: For WordWind: I was going to add that yes, things can only be honkin' big, not honkin' small or honkin' smelly or anything else...[\red]
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#92928 - 01/31/03 08:29 PM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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Honkin' big is not an expression I use much myself (in fact I think my post above when I was more or less just quoting mg was probably a first), but I've certainly heard it before and know what it means. In reply to:
In looking up honking I ran across hork spit, the act of spitting, according to the dictionary, with the additional qualifier added by me that it usually refers to the type of spitting preceded by the sound "hork" which is marked as Canadian slang. Well, that's another one I thought everyone knew. Live and learn.
Surely this is just a Canadian mis-spelling of hawk? For any who may not be familiar with the expression, hawking up is a major expectoration preceded by much throat-clearing and coughing.
Bingley
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Bingley
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#92929 - 01/31/03 09:36 PM
Re: Honkin' big
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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Surely this is just a Canadian mis-spelling of hawk?Presume not such a thing! Misspellers not we are! Onomatopoeists are we. Hence honkin', methinks.... Actually my Canajun Oxford, eh? sez "hork" is an alteration of "hawk." Not a misspleling. Plese. We nevir mispel anythink. We ar a nation of very literut peopl. Dunno that I envisioned quite how honkin' big them banana seeds are....I wonder how they do compare with watermelon seeds? I wonder how the wild banana compares, for size, with the tame banana? While I'm at it, I wouldn't have said an avocado had a honkin' big seed. I would have said it had a honkin' big pit. But that's a whole nother discussion, prolly.... And finally I feel compelled to add, because of Bean's example of the honkin' big truck, that I actually used that phrase once and had to elaborate....I rang up the police station to report someone who had passed me dangerously (I get quite righteous about dangerous driving), and I said, "This honkin' big truck passed me on a solid line....Okay, it wasn't actually honking...." The policewoman laughed and said she knew what I meant, a friend of hers uses that expression all the time...!
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#92930 - 02/01/03 07:36 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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Somehow great seems to go better with honkin than big does. As in "He gives a honkin great hork every morning. Sounds like he's bringing half his windpipe up."
Bingley
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Bingley
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#92931 - 02/04/03 08:35 PM
Re: Honkin' big
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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Bingley, you're right - for your bit o' the world! Canajuns seem to use "big" rather than "great" for a size adjective.
I just remember my British-born-and-raised father saying things like, "This ruddy great truck passed me on the highway," etc....
I heard someone with a British accent talking about how the 12th century English kings used to go "hawking" and I now quite unnerstan' why Canajuns corrupted it to "horking"...!
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#92932 - 02/04/03 08:53 PM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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But.... but ... to the non-rhotically inclined among us, hawking and horking sound the same.
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
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#92933 - 02/04/03 09:13 PM
Re: Honkin' big
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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hawking and horking sound the sameShorely the vowel is a tad longer in the former? rhoticism or not?! (I had to look up "rhotic" btw....) but yer right, I guess. Damn. I think I'm falling in love....
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#92935 - 02/06/03 09:46 AM
Re: Honkin'
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member
Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 144
Loc: London, UK
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Edit: For WordWind: I was going to add that yes, things can only be honkin' big, not honkin' small or honkin' smelly or anything else...
__________________________________
well, in a Britslang moment, I'd have to say it would in any case be impossible for something to be honking smelly as 'honking' means smelly.
As in, I think that cheese may have gone off.... oooh, yes, it's absolutely honking.
Frequently also applied to feet.
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#92936 - 02/06/03 10:00 AM
Re: Honkin'
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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I often use raunchy as slang for "bad smelling". raunch would be the noun form.
eg. "What IS that raunch? It's making my stomach turn!"
eg. "Now THAT is a raunchy smell."
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#92937 - 02/06/03 10:41 PM
Re: Honkin'
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old hand
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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'honking' means smelly.
And so does "humming," as I recall from dating a Brit feller while backpacking in Oz....(he came out of the loo in our room in Brisbane - the only hostel room we ever had that was ensuite, I think - and said, "O, don't go in there - it's humming!") (I love that man, how he made me laugh!)
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#92940 - 02/07/03 06:17 AM
Re: Honkin'
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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"Raunchy", where I come from, usually means something sexually suggestive, a bit grubby
It certainly has this as its more common meaning but I learned it as "smelly" in high school. It might have been a bit of local slang which then dispersed when we all left.
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#92941 - 02/10/03 05:49 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
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hawking and horking sound the same
I felt some embarrassment when, on asking an American colleague one time, “What bird’s that?” he replied, “That’s a hock.” Normally I’m pretty quick with these differences, but I had already identified it as a hawk and was waiting for him to tell me what kind – him bein’ a huntin’ type an’ all. So, what is he telling me? I thought, and was trying to recall a type of hawk that was called a hock. Decided I must’ve misheard. I *knew it wasn’t a bottle of overly sweet white wine! Of course, I had asked too broad a question for the answer I wanted and he had to repeat himself three times before I caught on.
As a non-rhotic speaker I pronounce hawk and cork alike and, for that matter, caulk. My colleague would pronounce ‘cork’ almost as I would, non-rhotic certainly, but perhaps with an almost unnoticeable diphthong (but not an intrusive ‘r’). His hawk, however, was ‘hock’. Does this suggest an origin on the east coast perhaps? He was living in California at that time but I don’t know his home state.
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#92943 - 02/10/03 06:42 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
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You're right. Intrusive was not correct, and is not what I meant. Mental muddle. Mea culpa.
The 'r' is there, has every right to be there, and whether you acknowledge its presence or not comes down to early training.
Point I was trying to get at was whether these were linguistic clues to where this guy came from?[rising inflection]
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#92944 - 02/10/03 06:59 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11578
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
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His hawk, however, was ‘hock’. Does this suggest an origin on the east coast perhaps? Hi, Sweet Thing--no. Some East Coast-ers get weird with their r's, as in hahbah for harbor and Porscher for Porsche. But we normal US'n's and even those ones pretty much say hawk for hawk. Though I'm not saying that nobody says hock for hawk, hock is a different word and I would hope people would make sure they distinguish the sounds of the two (yes, I am an optimist). The vowel sound of hawk is the same as in jaw, law, paw, etc. And although I believe ought really ought to have a slightly different vowel sound, around these parts it's the same: hawk, ought.
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#92946 - 02/10/03 09:17 AM
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
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If any of us owned the Dictionary of American Regional English, we could LIU: http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/dare/dare.htmlVol. IV just out!
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#92948 - 02/10/03 09:51 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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I think I've mentioned this before but anyway..in "typical" Canadian English the vowels in hock and hawk have merged, that is, they are pronounced the same. So Canadians (on average, and including myself) see the following word pairs as homophones:
hock/hawk
don/dawn (this can be awkward since Don is a man's name and Dawn is a woman's name)
tot/taught
cot/caught
awful/offal
cod/cawed
I think this may be the case for some parts of the US - I remember looking at some vowel map at the American Dialect Society - but I can't remember the details anymore. Anyway, hock/hawk sounds perfectly normal to my ears but I can see the source of confusion.
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#92949 - 02/10/03 09:55 AM
Re: Honkin' big
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
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honk, honkerWhen I was a kid, and through high school (Central New Jersey, NYC area), we always used to say for spitting "honk up a good one" or "what a honker" or "that's a big honker". And "honkey" was a disparagement for white folks. raunchyAnother favorite high school expression was "man, that's raunchy!" for something that's smelly or nasty in any repulsive way. "Get that raunchy thing away from me!" bananasIt was recently in the news that bananas have a good chance of disappearing within 10 years as they are genetically unable to fend off disease...unless one of our bio-geneticist maestros saves the day and saves our bananas (I love bananas!) he mispelled my nameP franz, okay?  Candian geeseUh, ladies...that's Canad a geese.
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#92956 - 02/10/03 10:19 AM
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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OK, you YARTophobes, the bit about "where in the US have these vowels merged" is still unanswered, and I'm not in the mood to look for it. Instead of making fun of me you could get your Googlers out and get working! I was just pointing out a possibility, and slightly miffed that Jackie insinuated that those of us who don't differentiate between those vowels are pronouncing things improperly. [pout] I say, when a whole group of people pronounces things a particular way, then it is the right way for them! I will never be able to casually make my mouth all pointy the way you need to to pronounce awful, hawk, dawn, etc., with different vowels than the others!
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#92962 - 02/10/03 12:31 PM
Re: about, aboot
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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It's called raising because your tongue is actually in a higher place in your mouth when making that vowel. However, the "rule" for raising is different in Canada than those parts of the US where it's found. We raise the vowels before an unvoiced consonant, and leave the sound "low" before a voiced consonant. I think in Virginia it's applied to all instances of one of the diphthongs (can't remember if it's ai or au) whether voiced or unvoiced. The info is in my linguistics book at home, and I am, of course, at school...
I don't think they [the linguists] have generally concluded just why it arose. Certainly Canadians of Scottish descent seem to raise more strongly than others. And many of the first English-speaking Canadians came from Scotland. But we all* seem to do it.
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#92963 - 02/10/03 12:34 PM
Re: about, aboot
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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Here's a link about it, but the bloody sound thingies don't work for some reason. And sound files would be most useful in this case! http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/CanadianEnglish.html
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#92964 - 02/10/03 12:39 PM
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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member
Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 180
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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"Bean, the about/aboot was a serious question...really."
Aieeee! It's NOT "aboot"! It's ABOAT. Maybe I should let a Canajan answer that question, but it drives me nutz when people can't tell the difference. It was one of the first things I noticed when I moved to Ontario in 1978, and when I mentioned it to my friends, who were all language students, they all said, "Oh, no, we don't soand like that!"
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#92965 - 02/10/03 12:44 PM
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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old hand
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
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If it were aboot, then we would be able to rhyme words like "about" and "flute". Well, we don't. They don't rhyme. I like to spell the -out sound something like uh-oo (as opposed to USn and Brit ah-oo), where "uh" is the schwa sound. The whole vowel ends up shorter with the Canadian Raised diphthong. One of my favourite demo pairs of words is lout/loud. Loud ends up so much longer than lout. They are so similar but different because we only make this vowel change before an unvoiced consonant (see above).
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#92969 - 02/11/03 07:34 AM
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11578
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
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insinuated that those of us who don't differentiate between those vowels are pronouncing things improperly As to this, I'm just a stick(ler) in the mud. But as to lout/loud. Loud ends up so much longer than lout. , well, y'all people are just weird! Eep--I just tried it, and be danged if loud isn't just a little bit longer! Oops! Aside: isn't it neat, that your thread that seemed to start out as being relevant to just a few, has transmogrified and grown the way it has?
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#92970 - 02/27/03 12:15 AM
Non-Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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From the most recent two issues of Michael Quinion's newsletter: 15 Feb: Subscribers who are native speakers of North American English are likely to find the Dialect Survey of interest. This was created by Professor Bert Vaux at Harvard University. You can take a test and view the collected results, which include maps. See where people say the vowel in "cot" and "caught" the same way, where they use double models as in "I might could do that", where they consider "anymore" to be a standard form meaning "nowadays", or any of 120 other variations. See: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/22 February: A number of Canadian subscribers attempted to register at the dialect site I listed last week, which describes itself on its home page as "designed for speakers of North American English", but found to their surprise and disgruntlement on trying to take the test that they were not considered to be North American. Not being in that category, I didn't try the test, so didn't discover the error. I did assume, though, that a linguistic site would know what it meant when it wrote "North American English"! Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
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#92973 - 02/27/03 09:34 AM
Re: Canadian English survey
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
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There's a group at McGill University doing a survey on English word usage in Canada. All you have to do is email them at canadian_english@mcgill.ca
At the bottom of the form I received it notes the survey may be returned to : Prof Charles Berg, Dept of Linguistics, McGill University, 1085 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, QC, H3A 1A7 Canada -- Tel (514) 398-4896 -- FAX : (514) 398-7088 -- E-Mail : charles.boberg@mcgill.ca
I took it, so did a couple of my neighbors, my son and the young gal who comes in to help around the house. Some interesting differences and similarities! Age range from early 20s to me in 70s!
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#92974 - 02/27/03 11:01 AM
Re: Harrumph®
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 3774
Loc: Worcester, MA
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And what's a 'double model?
Aha! Found it. It's not "model", it's "modal"! Like could, would, ought to, etc.
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...I'd rather eat ham hocks!
Re: hock, hawk and other US regionalisms
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