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The latest Discover has an article entitled "A Universe That Is Built for Life" that makes some reputable scientists sound like they are closet theologians, "trying to understand why the universe is so benevolent, providing conditions that are nearly perfect for human life." The "anthropic principle" = " What we can expect to observe must be restricted by the conditions necessary for our presence as observers."
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Carpal Tunnel
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old hand
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old hand
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The "anthropic principle" = " What we can expect to observe must be restricted by the conditions necessary for our presence as observers."
Oh that is soooo true. In fact it is so true it is stupid. Silly fellow. We also observe when we imagine.
...the universe is a living thing that has enabled itself to observe itself.
Obviously.
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journeyman
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journeyman
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"We also observe when we imagine". milum
Why yes. That's why I think daydreaming is such a valuable tool....access to an entirely other realm of reality....(so m, turn off that computer and get back on that couch and dream!)
"the universe is a living thing that has enabled itself to observe itself". - "Obviously". milum
Well. I'm happy to hear you say that. While it is *obvious* to some, it certainly seems to be lost on the many.
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Carpal Tunnel
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I find it extremely interesting, and probably significant that there are so many physics constants that if changed only a little would have made life impossible. One I reaad in Scietific American I think many years ago, is the fact that when water freezes, just before it solidifies it expands enough to lower its specific gravity enough that it floats.Otherwise the oceans would have become solid ice, with only a few feet of water on the surface, and life in the oceans would be impossible, except for algae and other microscopic forms.
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there's that great book of lee smolin "the life of the cosmos" i think. it appeared a few years ago. IMHO defeating argument against all "anthropists". suppose they wouldn't agree :)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Bill:
In my view the actuality is that the life on earth is built to live in the universe that exists. The universe is not benevolent. It doesn't give a rat's patoot. It exists, and this strange combination of molecules has found a way to replicate itself, perhaps in perpetuity, but in all likelihood not.
TEd
TEd
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Carpal Tunnel
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the life on earth is built to live in the universe that exists.
Good point. If this universe weren't just perfect for us to exist we wouldn't be here to marvel at how perfect it was for us to exist.
On the other hand, other comments that with just some minor changes in some very fundamental constants, atoms, even subatomic particles, couldn't exist carry some weight, too. See Just Six Numbers by Martin J. Rees.
But on the third hand, if things were just that little bit different, perhaps there would be completely different subatomic particles, and we would be beings of some completely different nature that we can't begin to comprehend, marveling at the fact that if the basic constants were just a little bit different we wouldn't exist.
What it boils down to, as far as I'm concerned, is that the universe is neither compelled nor constrained by our imagination or lack of imagination.
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journeyman
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Well, I agree with Faldage....life has evolved this way, and if it hadn't, it would have evolved 'that way' or some (other) way, and surely it has in places we haven't yet found or perhaps even conceived of (and may not ever as human beings; we are constrained by the very fact of our existence). And I find that fascinating.
"What it boils down to, as far as I'm concerned, is that the universe is neither compelled nor constrained by our imagination or lack of imagination". -faldage
But *we* apparently are. And that's why I try to let set my imagination free....I let it roam around with ideas like qanats and speleogenesis, high altitude sprites and collective minds...somehow its all part of the larger evolving....imho, anyway....
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magimaria said: "Why yes. That's why I think daydreaming is such a valuable tool....access to an entirely other realm of reality....(so m, turn off that computer and get back on that couch and dream!)"
And Schopenhauer said:"Alles Urdenken geschieht in Bildern. Darum ist die Phantasie ein so notwendiges Werkzeug desselben." Yeah, that's what he said. But what he meant was "All primal, basic thought happens in pictures. For that reason, imagination is itself a very necessary tool." And I'm a lousy translator. But I saw that in a book I cataloged once and copied it down and stuck it to my studio wall. I really don't know how to render "Urdenken" into English satisfactorily.
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