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I have been struggling with writing forever. I feel that my word choices are very limited and even if I memorize all the words in the English language, I don't think I'm able to utilize them to the fullest. I see how others can explain and describe something so beautifully in writing and I can't seem to use descriptive words in my writing. How do I learn to write from "He cleared his throat" to "snorts heavily, as phlegm and other assorted organic debris is shaken loose from his nasal passages"? Please help.
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First, I'd go for the plural of the verb. Second, I'd ask myself why I'd want to write something so gross to begin with.  Welcome aboard, Duck, and have fun!  Lot you can learn here from us fellow amateurs.
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i think it starts first with seeing.
we have seen so many things, that even the most glorius become, quickly, unless we make an effort, old hand.
the sun rises every day, and we expect it to, but when was the last time you got up before dawn, and went someplace you could watch it?
and not just the sun... watch what happens arround you. if you are a city, maybe, you'll notice the fresh smell of bread, as the bakery doors are opened and the fleet of truck start their rounds, you might hear the harsh, rough sound of metal gates opening, in small shops, with the click and clunks of the locks being removed. the steady background hum of traffic, changes, as more traffic enters the road, and things move slower, can you hear the the rasp of the air breaks? and the low rumbling of large trucks as they gear down to slower speeds? as it get lighter, suddenly, the street lights blink out.. most in my city are controlled by light sensors, and one sensor might contol a string of 10 or more.. you can watch their light die, like phantoms of the night, vanquished by the encroaching light of the sun..
or you could just say, the sun rose and the city came to life.
if you don't see the detail, you can't express them. start small... you don't need a big vocabualry, (but it helps, because a single word can create an image-- above i wrote a factual sentence about the mechanism that turn off street lights.. and followed it with a image, a fanciful way of expressing the same facts.. on long straight streets, it is interesting to watch the lights go out sequentually.. and to imagine they are beings, who die in sunlight.
and read good descriptive writers, and become aware of the way they use words to create images.
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1. K.I.S.S., or "keep it simple, stupid." For example, an apt description with "everyday" words is usually better than one that uses flowery or ostentatious words.
2. Show, don't tell. Anne Rice tells, Jane Austen shows.
3. Brevity is the soul of wit.
4. Like just about anything else, you get better at writing the more you write. Write something. Read it back to yourself as if you were reading it out loud. Or better yet, read it out loud. Does it have a coherent flow, or does it sound awkward? Re-write if necessary. Repeat this process until you are satisfied.
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Read. Then read some more. When you're tired of that, read yet more.
Read good stuff. Read bad stuff. Learn to tell the difference.
Then write.
Write some more. Repeat as necessary.
Writing bad stuff is easy. Writing good stuff is hard. You won't automatically write good stuff, but if you have learned to tell the difference between good and bad you'll be able to see it for yourself.
This is not an easy road. I've been writing for half a century, and while I'm getting better I sure as hell ain't good!
Oh. Don't be afraid to join a criticism group. Helping others to write better makes you a better writer.
TEd
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Not advice - only a note. You're not the only aspiring writer who struggles with how to use effective words to communicate exactly the right nuance. I'm not sure whether perfection should be our goal, but we shouldn't be too disappointed when we fall short of that particular mark. How much writing is flawless?
Anyway, great advice you've received so far - every bit of it - start small, visualize, simplify, read a lot of good stuff, and also some bad, practice discriminating, write, write, write. I've followed most of it myself and while I'm not near where I want to be, yet, but I'm not so far from my goal as when I started. If only I'd had a proper measure of longitude when I'd started this voyage.
good luck,
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Do you all think simple writings are better than descriptive writings? Or is it just a style that you find as you write? I always feel that if order for someone to see what you are describing you must be detailed.
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Do you all think simple writings are better than descriptive writings?
i don't think that there is a conflict between simple and descriptive. I think good writing can be both simple and descriptive.
Or is it just a style that you find as you write?
I always feel that if order for someone to see what you are describing you must be detailed.
Describe your hand to me..
is it small or large? are the fingers long and thin, or short and stubby? its well sinewed and muscular? or soft and flacid? does it have any tatoos or scars, or does it have smooth, soft supple skin? what about your finger nails? are they short or long? cut or bitten? manicured or ragged? can i see the half moons on your nailbed? and what about the shape of your nails? large and square? of rounded or oval? how about the palms? what about the lines on you hands? deep? are you hands stained from a job or vocations? do you have ink or paint or metals, embedded into your finger tips? hairy? or not noticible so? are there rings on your fingers?
and while i have phrased these as either/or questions, don't respond, or think of them as either/or.
could you describe your hands so well that i could come to know you by looking at your hands?
you might say there is nothing special about my hand(s), but that is not true.. and one or two words, make a big difference..
soft, mottled, crepe gave way to tight, thin stretched skin that could bearly contain the knarled hooked fingers. and you think of an old person, with arthitic fingers.. and even that poor sentence got change 3 times, and no soon than i post, i will think of better words to create the image.. and there it is: Write it again! and again, and again.. until you have it right.
and if not hands, something else, small but
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To my mind, writing simply and writing descriptively aren't mutually exclusive. A piece can be comprised mainly of very simple words in a relatively simple grammatical structure and yet be evocative.
Of course, without having comfortable access to a large vocabulary one risks generating page upon page of trite and repetitive phrases that make for a painful reading experience. I never use a thesaurus, but I think one could come in pretty handy to a professional writer - as would a dictionary. But an enumeration of all the words one knows is not the same thing as one's working or functional vocabulary.
Getting the word a day from this site and from merriam webster is a good way to gently stress one's vocabulary neurons, but I also do the tried and true thing of noting words and passages I don't understand when I read so I can look them up later and ponder over them. It's not a quick fix, of course, but over time, it really helps. Also reading a wide variety of things can help.
You might also try to develop exercises for yourself. For example, pick a topic and try to write everything you can about that topic and then hone what you've written into a coherent essay.
Since I'm not a writer you should not take anything I say seriously. I think you're in the right place here to work on your vocabulary and get insights into meanings. If you're interested in improving the style of your writing, you might want to check, as well, with usenet groups like misc.writing. Haven't checked in with them in a few years, but maybe they can give you ideas for exercises - or perhaps even suggest a regimen for developing specific skills.
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Two piees of advice about writing in general :
Compose in Fire
Re-write in Ice.
Just write, write, write, keep writing until you have dissapated the passion and said all you want.
Then, re-write (edit) in a dispassionate, cool-eyed way until you feel it's the best you can do.
And as one great editor said to me after watching me when I was struggling over a story .... "When you come to a good place to stop, for God's sake STOP!"
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I'm going to add my thoughts, belated though this is. First, welcome, "Duck"! Nice to have you. One thing that occurred to me in reading all of the excellent suggestions above, is that not all descriptions are visual. Scents and sounds are commonly described, also; taste and touch less so, I think. I have a couple of bits of advice, the first being kind of Gestalt-y. Try focusing, really concentrating, on different things. Let's say you're outside and concentrating on sounds; close your eyes (to help you focus better) and listen. You might hear birds and traffic, sure, but. Are there different bird calls? Is the wind rustling the trees? Do you notice the whoosh of tires on the pavement? Details, child, details! You have to be aware of something before you can describe it. I strongly agree with the read, read, read advice. This will help you learn what you want to do--and what you do NOT want to do. Mary Stewart is an author who can take you TO whatever spot she's writing about--you can see it in your mind quite well. These descriptions are quite detailed. But, as has been pointed out, too much detail is not always good! And I for one have not bothered to try and figure out the parameters ahead of time, but I sure know 'em when I see 'em. For example, if I read that someone was standing "one hand on hip, toe tapping impatiently", I don't need a description of the facial expression, and in fact I far prefer to be left to imagine it. But I can only talk about something like that "case by case"; I can't carry it on to a generalization, I don't think.
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I always feel that if order for someone to see what you are describing you must be detailed.
Not necessarily true. I remember attending a workshop with Isabel Huggan (a not-very-well-known Cdn writer), and she talked about describing a table in one of her stories in great detail - in the first draft or two of that story. The table in all its glory was not mentioned in the story in the end - it was referred to as "the table" or with very little extra detail - but Isabel thought the important thing was to have imagined it fully.
I can't remember who gave this advice about writing, but someone (a writer, too!) once said that you should read over all your writing, and when you come to a passage you particularly like, strike it out....This was given as advice for avoiding purple prose, methinks!
If you want advice on writing, one of the best things you can do is follow the advice above (about reading lots, and writing lots) - and while you're reading, include The Writer's Quotation Book: A Literary Companion, edited by James Charlton. It has many gems in it. Some examples:
Any writer overwhemingly honest about pleasing himself is almost sure to please others. ~ Marianne Moore
My purpose is to entertain myself first and other people secondly. ~ John D. MacDonald
I never care to converse with a man who has written more than he has read. ~ Samuel Johnson
I only read two books in my life and that includes The Official Pete Rose Scrapbook. That's not a book - that's a bunch of pictures. I done the captions. I've written more damn books than I've read. ~ Pete Rose
It's not the most intellectual job in the world, but I do have to know the letters. ~ Vanna White
It's witty, it's irreverent, it's reverent, it's frustrating, it's illuminating. I always like reading what other writers (eg, not Pete Rose!) have to say about writing - sometimes it gives me hope, and sometimes it gives me a much-needed reality check.
Welcome to the board, duckie! You'll get lots of opportunities to find your voice here.
If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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I wonder if... ...but someone (a writer, too!) once said that you should read over all your writing, and when you come to a passage you particularly like, strike it out...
- and -
Any writer overwhemingly honest about pleasing himself is almost sure to please others. ~ Marianne Moore
My purpose is to entertain myself first and other people secondly. ~ John D. MacDonald... are talking about the same thing. 
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I've come on this one late, as usual - but just the same, I extend my welcome to you, unieduck. My two penn'oth of advice is on a slightly divergent track. You hint that you are not totally satisfied with your vocabulary and would like to increase it. (My deep apologies if I've misunderstod you.) One efficient way of increasing vocabulary is to read books and articles with words in that you do not completely understand - or understand at all, possibly. Look them up in the dictionary and write them down, complete with meaning: the act of writing helps to consolidate the knowledge in your mind. Select four or five of the words and introduce them into conversation at least three times each during the next week. Include them in anything you write, if possible, over the next week or two. Actually speaking the words, in a proper context, really does hamnmer them into your mind, and gives you a well-trodden neural path to their door, so that you can access them with ease when the appropriate time comes. It does, of course, make your conversation a bit strange but it's worth it. Good luck!
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Many thanks for the compliment, Ma'am. It's part of my Study Skills lecture series. People pay good money to come and hear me say that - and all y'all are getting it for free!  I'll pass amongst you with the hat later.
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Look them up in the dictionary and write them down, complete with meaning: the act of writing helps to consolidate the knowledge in your mind.
Select four or five of the words and introduce them into conversation at least three times each during the next week.
Okay, I'm such a geek, but your method really works. I have a small notepad I carry around for this purpose (among others). I used to get a lot of weird stares from people for showing off on the vocabulary sometimes, but eventually many of the words you learn will become natural to you. It sounds geeky and it is, but it works very well. One slightly embarrassing thing is that when other people have seen my list, they usually say something like "You don't know what a 'parricide' is?" And I have to say, "Well, I thought it was a verb, but so and so used it like a noun and I'm just guessing, but I really just want to look it up to make sure ... but ... no ... I guess I didn't know."
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Very probably, there is about as much (contradictory) advice about writing as there is about child education. Success is a volatile perfume.
I find that A. Conan Doyle is still a marvelous example for completeness combined with conciseness in description.
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Apropos 'contradictory'.... late as usual, I will nonetheless add two points that might be helpful for Lander:
1. Try not to concentrate too much on the words with which you want to communicate your idea, but on the idea itself. Provided you have a reasonable grasp of the language you're using, the words will surface on their ownself. At any one time we have a sheer endless amount of ways to express that which we think; the filtering process should focus on the desired pattern, the goal, not on the individual grains being run through.
2. Don't read (too much)! I know this goes against that which many have said above, but is sifting endlessly through the symbolic representations of other's thoughts really going to assist immeasurably in the articulation of your own? Have you stopped reading this?
Reading others and writing oneself should be kept conceptually and practically separate, IMHO. Success is indeeed a volatile perfume, but that doesn't mean one can easily distill its origins. I'm not suggesting we trash our bookcases, but I think being 'well-read' is often stifling to one's own self-expression. This is particularly true in music - you sit down to bang out a tune and can't help remembering someone else's that sounds similar - agh!!!
Happy writing anyway!
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Lovely to see you back, by.
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Don't read (too much)! I know this goes against that which many have said above, but is sifting endlessly through the symbolic representations of other's thoughts really going to assist immeasurably in the articulation of your own? Have you stopped reading this?
Reading others and writing oneself should be kept conceptually and practically separate.
My thoughts are exactly these when it comes to composing music. I must keep my head clear of other 'notes' and melodic phrases or they will (and have) creep into current works. This doesn't mean I won't actively seek inspiration from other methods of "approaching" representing the idea... but, often I'm my own inspiration.
If I wanted something that sounded like Copland I'd dig him up, prop 'em up on a chair and ask him to write it for me!
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1. Try not to concentrate too much on the words with which you want to communicate your idea, but on the idea itself...
2. ...but I think being 'well-read' is often stifling to one's own self-expression.Hey Bellig, Rule 1 swings, Rule 2 sucks. We are what we hear, see, and read. The originality is in the integration. We read for ideas and we write to express ideas. Why else would we read or write? And if we sing " I Gotta Be Me" we don't become Sammy Davis Jr. bar-hopping Las Vegas, we remain our less-than-glamourous off-key selves. Andy Warhol didn't like to read so he painted pictures of tomato soup cans which were bought by other people who didn't like to think. Let us ask ourselves this: Do we really want Art Historians of the future laughing at our painted cans? I didn't think so. Thank you.
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How do I learn to write from "He cleared his throat" to "snorts heavily, as phlegm and other assorted organic debris is shaken loose from his nasal passages"? Please help.
You are putting us on, unieduck. Very clever.
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If I wanted something that sounded like Copland I'd dig him up, prop 'em up on a chair and ask him to write it for me!Paradox here - because it's actually very difficult to write (music or writing) in the style of someone else, and make a convincing job of it. I think it's inevitable that when we create we use existing ingredients, especially our personal (conscious and unconscious) favourites. That's not to say that the end product isn't effectively original, as the memetic whole is much greater than the sum of parts. But to be truly original you'd have to have been raised on another planet orbiting another star. And even that may not be enough.
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But to be truly original you'd have to have been raised on another planet orbiting another star. Then you would have very little chance of being understood by anybody, and starve to death unless you are sponsored by some earthling .
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Then you would have very little chance of being understood by anybodySo what's new?
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Ahhhhh. Now I understand where musick is coming from! 
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So what's new?
This has alway struck me as a surprisingly difficult question (If you are dealing with patents people you are harshly confronted with it). Every claim to newness can be set against a multitude of "states of the art", and success depends a lot on that choice. The border area between "new" and "nonsensical" is even more swampy.
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The border area between "new" and "nonsensical" is even more swampy.
At least as swampy as the border area between "male" and "white".
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a surprisingly difficult question (If you are dealing with patents people you are harshly confronted with it)Yes indeed. As witness suits regarding copyright on pieces of music. If someone nicks a brilliant, catchy chorus tune from another song, but has a totally different verse tune, are they infringing copyright? How important is a similarity in lyrics? How important a similarity in the instruments used, or harmonies? It's rare that this doesn't all end up incredibly subjective. I can hear a new song on the radio and clearly recognise similarities to songs I've heard before. This may be a good thing (as it provides more of what I like) or a bad thing (as the song "lacks originality"). But nothing is ever totally original; or everything is original, depending upon how you're looking at it. 
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> But nothing is ever totally original; or everything is original, depending upon how you're looking at it.
So the old is rendered 'new' when set in a different context and the new 'old' when seen subjectively in the same manner as previously?
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Hi Faldage, I almost expected some reaction like that: You obviously applied your square categorical grid to my somewhat foreshortened comparison . My thesis is simply that new nonsense cannot be distinguished from old nonsense because nonsense it timeless and ahistorical .
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So the old is rendered 'new' when set in a different context and the new 'old' when seen subjectively in the same manner as previously?I'm probably stretching the point. Most unlike me.  But... 1. There are no new ingredients or techniques. 2. Even the same basic recipe never comes out exactly the same on two occasions. In fact it's a highly skilled task to get effective mass-production. We should really have a term for the tendency of threads to veer in a food-related direction.
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We should really have a term for the tendency of threads to veer in a food-related direction.
Opsotropy.
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OpsotropyWouldn't that be a tendency to veer in an osteopathy-related direction? http://www.opso.com/
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re;We should really have a term for the tendency of threads to veer in a food-related direction.
how can that be happening? i haven't posted in this thread in days!
but as cole porter said, "everything old is new again"
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But nothing is ever totally original; or everything is original, depending upon how you're looking at it. ~ fish
Too true Soul-bro', therefore all categorizations are arbitrary no matter how you look at it. Therefore...
Words have no meaning. Words only have function.
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ah, Words have no meaning.
you cause me to think of these words, attributed to Ahab, in the book Ahab's Wife (by Seta Jener Naslund)
"Beware of the treachery of words, Mrs. Sparrow. They mean one thing to one person and the opposite to another. They are like all conventional land-born habits. Words seem to be well-woven baskets ready to hold your meaning, but they betray you with rotted corners, and spintered stays."
even with out your brackets, that would have jump out and grabbed me, nancy! i am reading the book again, for the first time, i dove in and downed in it, now, i savor each word!
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therefore all categorizations are arbitrary no matter how you look at itNot sure that necessarily follows, Mr M... But then, maybe that just proves your point. Certainly words in themselves are meaningless and functionless. Like money. 
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Sheer coincidence, ephewNice ref site, 'clage. Meeting oneiric again was a pleasant surprise. Not sure that threads veer solely toward "cooked or prepared food", mind.
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Certainly words in themselves are meaningless and functionless.
Like money.
It may be functionless, but it's fungible! (this for Dr Bill )
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solely toward "cooked or prepared food"
Yeah, well, I was happy just finding any reference to a Greek root for food, I wasn't ready to be too picky.
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Ahhhhh. Now I understand where musick is coming from!In this case having *knowledge of history leaves you no better *prepared for the future.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
having *knowledge of history leaves you no better *prepared for the future
Yes and no, Musick.
Philosohpically, I believe you are absolutely right, but not so much in practical terms.
Contrary to the "popular saying", history never repeats itself, nor would anyone really expect it to, if they thought hard about it. Each event has a different set of conditions - often, different people involved, and always, the world has changed since last time. Even the people, if the same, have changed to a greater or lesser extent. So, *to that extent, you cannot reliably predict any outcome.
However, when events are temporally close to each other, and the personnel and other conditions are 'constant', the likelihood of an identical outcome (or one so nearly identical as to not make a difference, in practical terms) is very greatly increased - possibly to the point where it is 'safe' to make a prediction.
(e.g., I bang my head on the wall. It hurts my head and doesn't dent the wall. If I repeat the experiment on the same place of the same wall within a few minutes, there is an overwhelming chance that it will still hurt my head and will still not dent the wall.)
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
e.g., I bang my head on the wall. It hurts my head and doesn't dent the wall. If I repeat the experiment on the same place of the same wall within a few minutes, there is an overwhelming chance that it will still hurt my head and will still not dent the wall.Rhuby, this is as close to a perfectly clear and generally understandable description of reality as I ever expect to find. Of course if you persisted in banging your head against the same place on the same wall, you'd probably start to acclimatise, and the wall would start to weaken. Eventually you would end up knocking a hole in the wall without hurting your head. Thereby proving that long-term prediction (or deciding present consequences on the basis of ancient historical analogies) isn't such a good idea. Or perhaps that we should never underestimate the stubborn eccentricity of our race. "The fool who persists in his folly will become wise" - but then again, he might just get lucky. 
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Several years ago I was sitting in a pub in Ireland (drinking a non-alcoholoic beverage of course!) and I noticed a fellow down at the end of the bar who was rhythmically pounding himself on the head with a hammer. I asked the bartender what he was doing.
"And isn't he hitting himself over the head with a hammer?" responded the proprietor as he pulled a Guiness (I ALWAYS sit near the tap to cut down the time between beers).
"Yeah, I noticed that, but why?"
"And wouldn't it be because it feels so good when he stops?"
TEd
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
...you would end up knocking a hole in the wall without hurting your head.Anymore than you already have, of course. ----------------- I've heard recently and am now trying to popularize the folllowing quote: "Those who read history realize that they are repeating it". - ???----------------- BTW, Rub'Com', I was trying *hard to help CC assimilate my unpredictable, extra-terrestrial sponsorship...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
"Those who read history realize that they are repeating it". - ???
Sounds like a squoz down version of my "those who do study history are condemned to realize they are repeating it."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
From a book I read on vacation last week:
"[El Sordo] was not at all afraid of dying but he was angry at being on this hill which was only utilizable as a place to die... Dying was nothing and he had no picture of it or fear of it in his mind... Living was a hawk in the sky. Living was an earthen jar of water in the dust of the threshing with the grain flailed out and the chaff blowing. Living was a horse between your legs and a carbine under one leg and a hill and a valley and a stream with trees along it and the far side of the valley and the hills beyond."
For Whom the Bell Tolls by Earnest Hemingway, Chapter 27
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
only utilizable as a place to die
Was this really from Earnest[sic] or from his Evil Twin, Insincere?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
Yeah, that would be Ernest. Earnest was the cousin who had the most-important, highest-paying job.
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