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It's in the subsequent listings of definitions of words that are familiar that I often find definition applications that are surprising.
In the case of errand, I found today: "object of journey."
Does this meaning surprise anyone else?
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old hand
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Hi Honey -
I guess it doesn't surprise me, since so often what you want/need to do (the errand) comes at the end of a journey.
For example, if I want to buy some new film for my camera, chances are I'll walk downtown (not run, as in "running an errand"!), and go to my fave store, S&R (unique to Kingston - family discount dept. store, hurrah! know in my family as "Snur" because of the initials). The errand is to get film, so it is the object of my journey, by Shank's mare, downtown.
errand = object
Makes sense to me....However, if you were going on a trip to visit friends and relatives, that wouldn't be an errand, so I guess the usage as "object of journey" is fairly specific.
My errand was to buy film...?
Nah, it still makes sense to me. Were you thinking the errand comprised both journey AND object of journey? or what was it about the definition that surprised you?
If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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Maybe I've misread this definition. I just don't think of objects of journeys as being an errand.I think of journeys as being a bit larger in scope than errand-running. My head might not be on straight right now.
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Hm. I wonder if it comes from "knight errant" - my dic. gives, as its second definition of "errant,"
2 literary or archaic travelling in search of adventure
In which case, the journey is the destination - the errand is the adventure is the errand. Or something like that.
But you're right - I don't talk about going on a journey downtown. Might say I have to make a trip downtown.
Would "object of trip/excursion" have made more sense to you?
"Excursion" seems a bit much, come to think of it....But "trip" on its own could have another meaning....
Now I see what you meant....Yes, journey is an odd word to use in the context. Frodo was on an errand to cast the one ring into the fires that made it....Calling that an errand, rather than a quest, belittles it, but he was definitely on a journey, not a trip. (Would love to see the brochures for a package tour of Mordor!)
Yes. I think you're right - a "journey" is rather too long to take place before an errand. Hum. What could they have said instead, though? Perhaps, "the object of a specific outing" or "trip"?
Ungh. I don't know!
If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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OED traces errand back to Goth/ON/OS/etc. with an original sense of messenger/message; thereafter the message became a mission.
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And I just checked MW on Onelook:
errant from "a road";
errand from "business or a message"
...and the words from which errant and errant were each derived look very different from each other.
MW defines errand in the second sense as the object of a trip. OED defines it in the second sense as object of a journey (the concise edition). And I think what tsuwm shows above explains it--the errand was originally something more involved than the simple errands we think of running today--probably originally more involved with the business world, such as it was.
Oh, well. Much ado about.
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Pooh-Bah
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It has just ocurred to me that the Scottish saying "she's out doing the messages" which I had hitherto interpreted as "out doing the shopping" should actually be translated into the saying that my mother would have used (but I haven't heard for years) "she's out doing the errands". When I first heard someone tell me that they had been to do the messages, I could only really think of a job which consisted of passing on instructions to people and did not seem consistent with the shopping bag that the person was indicating as *they spoke. This usage of "message" is claimed for Glasgow here (although I have definitely heard it in Edinburgh): http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/m.htmand Dublin here: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~nobyrne/m.htmpedants please feel free to substitute he or she for they* and associated grammar at your whim
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Pooh-Bah
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Strange - I had never heard the first quoted expression, only the second. Is it common in the USA? Here's the Quinion view: http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-sha4.htm
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out doing the errands
Definitely a link here - an "errand boy" is very close to a "messenger (boy)". I suppose delivering a message or document is equivalent to delivering (and returning) small objects, so there's a natural shift in a more material direction.
Doing an errand = doing a job, performing a task, trading and so on.
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Pooh-Bah
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>links I've just looked it up. Message is listed as "errand" in the Scots dictionary, so that must be the basis of the Scottish use. I'll check with some friends to see if the word "errand" is ever used and if there is any subtle difference between the two. (Note: For furrigners, not around for earlier discussions - there is a difference between Scots, the language and the spoken language of modern Scottish people, which may include Scots - look up some Burns poems if you'd like to read some Scots. Scots is the Germanic language, related to English, spoken in Lowland Scotland and Ulster, not the Celtic language Gaelic!http://www.scots-online.org/dictionary/
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Carpal Tunnel
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A long long time ago, There was a king known as Arthur, and whose gallant knights included Messrs. Galahad, Gawain, and Lancelot. It came to pass that Lancelot had gone in search of the Holy Grail, but had not returned on time. Nay, even aftyer three months there had been no word from or of the sorta-loyal Lancelot.
King Arthur called Gawain and Galahad into his presence and asked if they would go on a quest to find Lancelot. They agreed and said they would leave that same afternoon. Arthur expressed surprise. "How can you gather together an entourage that quickly?"
Gawain replied, "Sire, we wouldst travel alone. A large group would just slow us down."
Arthur would not agree to this plan, since the reputation of the kingdom rode with them. "No, it would be best to take an entourage," he insisted. After some haggling, they agreed to take one squire with them.
Several days later, Gawain, Galahad, and the pageboy squire found themselves in the proverbial deep and dark forest. And, of course, it began to storm, lightning flashed, thunder roared, and it was raining lug nuts. Since a knight fears nothing more than lightning, they began a frantic search for shelter. A flash of lightning revealed a dark, foreboding castle.
They knocked at the portcullis, which opened to reveal a remarkably ugly crone, who intuited what they wanted. "You need a place of shelter, you beautiful young men? You've come to the right place. I will give you shelter, but one of you will have to sleep with me tonight and make me very happy, if you know what I mean."
Gawain and Galahad went into a huddle. "We need shelter," said Galahad, "but our knightly vows certainly preclude us from sleeping with her."
Gawain responded, "Simple, Galahad. Promise her anything, but give her our page."
TEd
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Something about you, Ted, is heaven scent!
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old hand
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Gawain responded, "Simple, Galahad. Promise her anything, but give her our page."
I'm soooo thick: I don't get it.
Please explain?
If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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this bit about messages sent me scurrying to the dictionary, Mess --came to from the latin mittere (it is a past part., of messes to send forth, came to mean a course (say at a meal one course of a seven course dinner) and then to mean food, and the place it was eaten, (mess hall), and then porrige or other simple food, to unappatizing food, and disordering eating of the food, to a disorderly collection of things!
meanwhile message-- moved from errand to communication!
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Ah weel, y'see, messages is a Scots worrrd, and used quite frequently in Dunedin, New Zealand. I was often sent out to do the messages when I was a bairn ....
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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mg, see the link:
Aaahhhhhh! NOW I get it! Was unfamiliar with both the perfume and the advertising campaign for it.
and a very instructive link it is, too, on how perfumes are created/the scents in perfumes combined....Thanks tsuwm!
If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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An errand boy here is likely to be referred to as a 'gofer'.
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Pooh-Bah
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Yes, I think my role in life is to be a gofer.
In the early days of the internet, people were always talking about gofers. Did they transmogrify into search engines or were they something completely different?
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In the early days of the internet, people were always talking about gofers
Gopher is an Internet protocol, Jo (like HTTP = HyperText Transfer Protocol). Was fairly widely used in the early days, but has fizzled out to near-nothingness. I think due to its being better suited to straightforward Newsgroups and whatnot, though I may well be wrong.
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