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#75383 - 07/17/02 06:30 AM Educative/Emotive
FishonaBike Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/11/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Sussex, England
seeming contests and measures of worth. What's gotten me all along in this whole discussion is the casual put-down Kennedy made of music

Yes, I have to agree that's the way it sounds WW, though I don't know the full context (which is always dodgy). But certainly going by words, "educative" implies "able to educate" - and music, as an aspect of life, (hopefully) educates us both emotionally and intellectually. We can learn to feel, and we can learn how to deal with feelings.

At the end of the day, though, this is yet another of those meaningless distinctions, like "head/heart", "mind/body", "nature/nurture", "matter/spirit" etc. We all know that the world doesn't really fall into two neat halves, and we all know that these so-called oppositions are really just extremes on the same continuum. But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness.






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#75384 - 07/17/02 06:34 AM Re: Late entry re Beethoven 5th
FishonaBike Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/11/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Sussex, England
>>a little bit further into the piece and the recognition will be significantly more rare, I think

Not for us Oldsters, Fishona


Accepted, Wise One - I did mean in terms of the general public, including the ever-increasing () number of youngsters.


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#75385 - 07/17/02 07:22 AM Re: Educative/Emotive
Wordwind Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
I agree completely with you, Fish, if not with Ms. Kennedy. I don't know the full context either since I've never read the work, but hope to find it in the state library next week. MG told me it's out of print. But I'm really curious about Kennedy's context. I'll report back in a few weeks. If she's anything like she was in this one example, watch out. Don't be around me while I read her. I may be spitting nails--in time to the first movement of the 5th.

If anybody here needs a good dose of the idea we call "victory," listen to the last movement.

Beethoven regards,
WW


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#75386 - 07/17/02 07:30 AM Out of print
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
I don't know the full context either since I've never read
the work, but hope to find it in the state library next week. MG told me it's out of print.


I just checked the library database. It was first published by MacMillan in 1951 and the last print was in 1972. The database prefix denotes that the book is irreplaceable from source (out of print) so ye cannae get it from the shops.


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#75387 - 07/17/02 03:40 PM Context
modestgoddess Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Madama Kennedy was writing about one of her characters when she penned that throwaway line that has my darling friend (I loves ya, ya know I does! ) WW up in arms....Dubdub, I suspect you will enjoy the book in its entirety, despite disagreeing with that sentiment. Kennedy was referring to an immature character who is very self-absorbed. However, she has other characters who are more involved in other arts who are also self-absorbed - but in different ways. And she has much praise for music in other contexts within the novel. Think the point she was trying to make was that though Rickie loved music and could make wonderful music himself, he wasn't terribly quick to pick up on "real-world" things.

So now I know you are going to argue that that could be character-specific, not music-general, and I would agree with you....!

And you're right, there's not much point to arguing this anyway. As Oscar said (it was Oscar, wasn't it, and not Lear or Coward or some other clever epigrammaticist?!), "Comparisons are odious." So I'se sorry I brought it up! but 'twas an interesting debate for a little while there (I read every word, WW!), yes?

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

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#75388 - 07/17/02 03:47 PM Re: Context
Wordwind Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
Modestgoddess, I'm argumentative on certain topics. I've enjoyed writing so many paragraphs here that not too many would be interested in reading anyhow. But it's kind of fun to have an imaginary audience of--ha!--over 3,000 readers! And, besides, sometimes you really don't understand what you believe and can move on to new thoughts till you've put those beliefs into words or actions.

I am going to read Ms. Kennedy's book if the state library has it. Promise. And after that, I'm going to hear a symphony orchestra play, and write a volume or two about what I learned! Just kidding! But if you want to go hear the fifth with me sometime, let's find an orchestra between your place and mine. I'll talk your MG (most gracious) ear off about it afterwards!

Beethoven regards,
WW


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#75389 - 07/17/02 03:51 PM Re: Context
modestgoddess Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 833
Loc: Eastern Ontario, Canada
WW, you got yo'sef a deal! I'll buy the popcorn.

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

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#75390 - 07/17/02 05:13 PM Re: Context
milum Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 872
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama


Fidel Castro: Aw forget it Dubba, let's find an orchestra between your place and mine. I'll talk your MG (most gracious) ear off about it afterwards!

President Bush: Well ok, you silly communist goose , you got yo'sef a deal! I'll buy the popcorn.




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#75391 - 07/17/02 05:56 PM Out of Context
musick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 2658
Loc: Chicago
Well, Milo, if'n yer gonna do dat, you shoulda changed the title!

---------

"...But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness."

I like it! I seems like the definition of definition.

...and Musick would only tear it to pieces, anyway--Hi, Musick!

Hi, WW. Now you know what I meant by "tighten your skin". Aw, go-on ahead and ruffle some feathers...


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#75392 - 07/17/02 06:13 PM definition
FishonaBike Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/11/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Sussex, England
"...But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness."

I like it! I seems like the definition of definition.


It is, isn't it?

Umm, but by the same token it isn't


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