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I am on vacation this week, and am on-line much less than at home, so it has taken me a while to catch up with news. But here it is:
The person who signed on to this board with the name Keiva, and who became AphonicRants, et. al., threatened to file a lawsuit against at least me, and possibly our beloved Anu. He has now been unbanned. Anu felt there was no choice. I shall miss you all.
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May I suggest that that was neither fully accurate nor particularly productive?
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As a previously neutral member in this matter, I will now publically say, in defense of one of the kindest women I have ever known, that Kenneth Spector, you are a despicable coward! Though I see it as entirely impossible to start a lawsuit based upon the banning of someone from a personal website, the fact that you would even threaten to do so is unthinkable. I know you've considered me a friend, and I once did too, but you have hurt too many people, and you now know how I feel about it.
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Jazz, you and I posted simultaneously. Please see PM to you.
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As with anything, there is always more than meets the eye, Jackie. Too bad you haven't been available today to see that although there was controversy, it has calmed down. YOU are the one who is causing it this time.
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Keiva, if what Jackie says is inaccurate, then please tell us all what exactly you did to "convince" Jackie and Anu, who knew fully the pain you have caused, to unban you.
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Kenneth Spector is an embarrassment to all men. A coward and hypocrite who hides behind threats of lawsuits like a belligerent little child, a nasty individual who nobody wants to play with – he hides behind threats and forces himself on individuals like a rapist.
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It's nearing midnight here, and I'm heading off to bed. I'd suggest that what is being said here is hardly "for the good of the board", and that perhaps it would be well to pause and take a deep breath.
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No Angel, the controversy is caused by Kenneth. You are wrong. You are biased and it shows.
Kenneth was banned and used threats to force his way back unto the Board.
In the two years since it's creation a banning has never happend. New members have always been welcomed, people always join in the fun, spats were quickly fixed, gotten over and forgotten. We were a happy group.
Since he joined there has been only strife and disagreement. Are you so blind that you do not see that the whole is being destroyed by the one?
Jackie is not the trouble, she was his savior on so many occasions you cannot know, yet he chooses to spit on her.
You are wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself.
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My point was simply that the controversy of the day had calmed down. I have nothing to be ashamed of by pointing to the fact that this thread is causing strife on the board, and that Jackie started the thread.
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congratulations, Ken. your nuking of the board is now complete. I hope that you and your little band of admirers will be very happy here amongst yourselves.
see you elsewhere, gang...
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Mushroom cloud forming on the horizon. ALL THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BLINDED BY THE LIGHT, PLEASE MAKE AN ORDERLY RETREAT. THIS IS NOT A TEST. I REPEAT, THIS IS NOT A TEST.
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I beg you all to explain to me just why Ken is a pariah. I have seen many of you call him names, but I haven't seen him call you names. Just what gives? I have been torn apart by this stuff in the past, when some of it turned against me, but will not be tripped up by it again. You are all highly intelligent people, but, from my admittedly limited parspective, you sound as though emotion, not reason, is running your lives.
Like most of you, I think that the sun rises in Kentucky primarily because Jackie is there. Nevertheless, I cannot condemn Ken for wanting to remain here, and appealing directly to Anu. It appears that some meeting of minds has been reached by the two of them, yet you all accuse him of coercion by way of threatening suit. What legal standing, what grounds, would he have against Anu, Jackie, or the board? Against those who slander, yes, but not against the rest.
If I am wrong, please dispassionately show me my error. I may only have a 40 Watt bulb burning in this room full of 100 Watt people, so perhaps one of you brighter ones can illuminate the roots of this internecene warfare. I do not wish to take sides; rather, I wish to rejoin this group to its purpose, so that no sides exist. Of course, some of us will be drawn to certain others, and that's natural and good, yet must we hate certain others? Can tolerence not be a part of AWAD?
Sincerely,
Geoff Sanders
geoffs@hevanet.com
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Jackie, I'm sorry to see that it has come to this... and for all your efforts in making this place sustainable for ALL - including Keiva. I know that your decisions along the way have been tremendously difficult for you, and this is a horrible ending. I feel for you.
Unfortunately, I find this all a little disturbing - the fact that anyone would even threaten a law suit in this type of environment makes me cringe. What a way to destroy a perfectly wonderful (yet acceptibly fallible) environment.
I don't think I want to be here any more. That threat lurking in the background is always going to make me feel uncomfortable about what I say here, and in what context it is taken. I do not wish to have that hanging over my head in any way, shape or form. I'm going to take my leave of this place... For those of you who may miss me, I'm sorry. For those who don't care, enjoy what is here while it lasts. Anyone who wishes to stay in contact with me, please PM me (as I will check in there for a week or so) and I'll give you details.
Sayonara, Adieu, Auf Wiedersehn, but probably not see you later!
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Meidung...you, sir, are not worth a word.
And, I'm sorry, Angel...after attacking Jackie, neither are you.
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What a horribly sad thing to go to bed sensing strife was at hand, and worse to awaken to so much ill will and confusion.
What did Keiva write or say to Anu? What kind of legal words were used? Was there any kind of threat at all? Those are the questions that will circle my brain all day long. I posted on a music board for about two years and posts were deleted and administrators could stop posters from posting, and that was that. I stayed out of the fray because I detested flaming so much. But to hear that a threat of legal action of any kind has been used goes beyond my comprehension.
Long ago, someone wrote, "Why can't we just all get along?" and suggested that we stop attacks, defenses altogether. What wisdom that was, and it wasn't heeded. Bill all along had been writing, "Words. Lets talk about words." And he meant so in the purest sense.
Well, we've had words. And we've had them, too.
Jackie, if you have been threatened in any way, your sorrow is my sorrow and I bear it with you. I will write to you privately through email if this place is to be no more a place where we can meet happily.
But I will pray that we will all come through this and meet again here some day without fear of any kind of threat. I have enjoyed to the greatest degree the writing, the various turns of mind and phrase, and getting to know the personalities behind the merry pens that have written here.
With great sadness and regret that this day has come,
Theresa
P.S. And I, too, will not post on board again until the day comes that hev, Jackie, consuelo, tsuwm and the rest may post in the spirit of this place that has been blasted away. Angel: Things had not quieted down. PMs were flying last night. We were being informed that Keiva had been reinstated to the board by Anu, and all were wondering why Jackie's administrative decision had been overruled. Public bulletin boards may permanently keep members from posting who participate in postings that cause strife. Administrators have the right to delete posts and posters. We have wondered last night why this action, free to other boards, was not the case here. Jackie exercised that right, but Keiva reappeared. Naturally, people here wondered what had occurred. Jackie informed us, plain and simple. She did not go into details. But it appears some kind of legal threat was made, no matter how small. Some kind of threat. And it is that word threat itself that holds a great deal of power. We do not come here to write with fear of any kind of legal threat, no matter how small. I am extremely confused that you thought things were calming down. In no way were they if my PM box is any example of what people were writing about last night. Your own perception in this case is completely inaccurate, and I write this with no anger. I just want to fill you in on what you may not have known.
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i am thoroughly disgusted, if unsurprised.
how terribly sad that our entire garden of blossoms can be choked by one pervasive weed. i can't imagine any human being wanting so desperately to be in a place where he is so clearly scorned by all but a handful of followers.
kenneth spector, you are a waste of DNA.
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How did this thing get its appendage in the doorway? Are there no rules against filing frivolous lawsuits in Illinois, or Ohio, or Kentucky or wherever this lawsuit is being threatened? Did the thing get its appendage in some loophole because there was no agreement that had to be accepted upon joining the board? Perhaps the best action is to dismantle the board and reform it with an agreement stating that participation is contingent on the permission of the administrator.
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I had not a PM or email yesterday, except one from Jackie early in the day before Keiva and Anu spoke. I honestly thought things had blown over.
I find Jackie's actions here counter productive. Making her announcement, as she has, is what has started the open sniping, yet again. The only thing Keiva had done during the day was post good word posts. There was no announcement that he was returning. Nothing. But the fact is, Jackie chose to start this thread.
This is my opinion on the matter. It is and always has been your right to accept that or to ignore it. Just as it has always been your right to accept or to ignore anything that appears on this board.
Let's talk about the word ignore. To ignore is to act as though something or someone doesn't exist, not to bring it to full attention.
Continue posting, and if a post by myself or Keiva or another offends you, then ignore it. Pretend it doesn't exist and go on about your business. Let's not tear this board apart because you don't agree with the words of another.
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Let's have clear statements. If Jackie leaves the Board, I also will leave. Much as I have enjoyed it in the past, I could not enjoy it if she is no longer Administrator with whatever authority she needs to curb abuses.
I suggest all who feel as I do to make a clear statement to that effect.
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No, Angel, i do not think Jackie's actions are counter productive.
if she is to be adminstrator, then her decisions must be acepted.. if Anu choses, with out giving reason why, to undo her decision then she is a straw man.. an administator in name only..
as for there being no strife, no upset, no discord.. no there wasn't publicly.. it was private. and why did no one include you? because of the perception that you think Ken was treated unfairly, and were not of like mind.
could it be we are all wrong? sure.. 20, 30 people can be wrong.. its possible. but i know, Ken's presence here make me feel threatened. He hasn't quite threatened me, he has just lied to me. but he has threatened my friends.. and to be honest, i don't want to wait around til the day he threatens me.
the old saying is "on the internet, no one knows you are a dog." well, its true, at first, but after a while, a persons character becomes evident.. and ken has demonstrated himself to me as being very, very smart, very knowledgeble, and also, very combative, competitive, and vindictive. Maybe he doesn't appear this way to you.
I just know, i don't want to associate with combative, competitive, vindictive people. i have a choice to make. i can stay here and be afraid or i can leave. there is a big world of words out there. there are many site devoted to this passtime. and many of those sites have administrators who are not straw men, they ban, and keep banned, people who are people like ken. i will spend my time at those sites.
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Faldage: reform it [the board] with an agreement stating that ...
Actually, F, I indeed suggested to Anu that it might be well to adopt sign-in procedures like those used by MSN, under which one must agree to certain terms in order to sign up for a screen-name. Anu seemed to think that a wise suggestion.
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Well - it has come to this. I made my opinion clear regarding Mr Spector when he published on the public board a number of Private Mails (PMs - that's what they mean - would you like to start a thread on the meaning of "Private", Angel?) Other, public posts that were offensive he deleted, after they had had their effect. (For the "good of the board", of course.)
That he has not personally attacked me is not to the point. He has made this board untenable, very subtly and deviously, mostly in private mails which other, decent members of this board have respected as "Private." Some have been shared, on a confidential basis, with me. I have no reason to believe that they were invented by the people who shared them with me - there were a few too many, of the same vain, to have been readily made up in order to provide false evidence.
I stand by my friends on this board - who are of long-standing, not power-crazy Johnny-Come-Latelies.
(apologies to all of you who have joined in the past six months who are also decent people - my regrets to you that you came too late to catch this board at it's highly imperfect prime.)
I'm off - those I know and like know how to contact me.
All the best
The RhubarbCommando
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I agree with everything Rhubarb Commando (and many others - Max, of troy, wwh, Wordwind, hev) have said. I will also no longer post on this site.
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[big sigh] If all the people who made this place the joyous addiction/enthusiasm it was for so long are going to disappear, I really don't see any point in staying.
Bingley
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I'm gone, too, at least for now.
All the friends I have made here, and I'm grateful there are scores of you, know where we are and how to contact each other. So all was not in vain.
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I think it is quite clear that you, Ken, do not understand what is "for the good of the board" as your words and "threatened lawsuit" just destroyed it. (Something for Anu to contemplate in a "counter-suit".)
(Anu, I think it is appropriate that you change the word "associates" in your disclaimer... a bit too vague)
GoodBye, all that are leaving.
Edit : Since new information has risen to the surface, I'll be here...somewhere
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Jackie et al.
In the past I have avoided to the greatest extent the politics on this board. I did once express the shame I felt when someone was castigated for suggesting that people in her area might want to sign up for her class. Other than that I've pretty much kept my mouth shut. Why?
On another board some years ago there was a person who espoused the killing of mental defectives and the involuntary starving of quadriplegics. I made the mistake of saying to him, "Hitler woulda loved it." And I got bounced from the board because I "called this guy a Nazi." I don't miss that board (it wasn't word related, more social), but it made me aware of how what seemed like innocent words can get you in trouble. I promised myself I'd avoid such things.
But I will miss this board if it falls apart as it appears to be doing. I want AWADtalk to continue.
I want it so much that I hereby pledge $1,000 US towards the legal defense of Jackie or Anu if they decide to ban Keiva and are then subject to lawsuit.
A thousand bucks buys enough legal service to stop a frivolous lawsuit dead in its tracks, in my opinion. And, though I have not consulted the lawyer I sleep with (and will probably not do so) I am certain that a lawsuit to force the unbanning of a person from a group like this would be frivolous in nature and might well subject the plaintiff or his attorney to the close scrutiny of the local bar association.
TEd, much saddened and much wiser
TEd
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TEd, if I understand you to be saying you that no valid legal action would lie for the act of simply banning a person from a private group such as this one, then I fully agree with you.
I hereby match your pledge, toward the defense of any such action.
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From which you can perhaps deduce, TEd, that I didn't threaten any such suit.
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Wordsmith in his post "Why" makes it very clear that he was yielding only to unspoken threat of lawsuit.
"I un-banned Keiva only after consulting Jackie and both of us agreed
there was no other option. Sorry to know that some are disappointed,
but we do not have time or resources to fight a lawsuit."
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For the record, there were written and spoken threats and notices of lawsuit.
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Dear Wordsmith: Thank you for having taken the trouble to document forked tongue deceit of Keiva.
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forked tongue? Not precisely, Dr. Bill. I had said that I would help defray legal costs to defend against a lawsuit requiring the unbanning of an individual.
I'm getting the feeling there may have been discussion about libel. If that's the case, the statement about "no such lawsuit" is technically correct. This is akin to the literal truth of saying that the oral favors I got from "that woman" weren't sex, where "sex" is defined or assumed to be vaginal intercourse only.
I wonder whether we would ever get simple yes or no answers to the questions, "Have you ever threatened either explicitly or implicitly to file a lawsuit or any other form of legal proceeding in this matter? If so, have you ever said or implied that you would refrain from or desist from filing such a lawsuit if the person or persons to be named as respondents would reverse their position and unban you from the AWADtalk board?"
Now, let me run of to my BCLD (Bill Clinton Legal Dictionary) to see if I can find what the definition of "is" is. While I'm there I'm going to see if there's a definition of a Full Lewinsky.
TEd
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I came here almost exactly 2 years ago as a young, somewhat naïve high school student with a passion for language and the beautiful literature that it created. While my intent was to further educate myself, my dad told me to get a social life. Over the past two years, I think I've sufficiently done both. In many ways I feel the same as I did back then, but I can tell that these passings of late have aged me considerably. When this whole affair began I foresaw such an ending as we are facing now, and hoped that it wouldn't be so, but I now have the wisdom to understand that both of my original goals are now futile. The light-hearted intellectual atmosphere is now gone and so are my friends, so I see no motive in making my presence here anymore.
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I am just quoting part of a PM I received from Jackie.
Without permission.
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Without permission.
Ma'am, your opening post chose to cite your view of the correspondence -- with no greater permission. One may rebut.
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I decided I'd better expound a little, despite my distaste for did not/did too.
Ewein, I made that statement with no details, in an effort to try and spare your feelings, based on the assumption that you love the man and would prefer not to hear negative things about him. No, he has not told me that he WOULD sue me. His statement revealed that he had considered the prospect, and to me that constitutes a very real threat.
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Upon the shore, a mile or more / From traffic and confusion,
An oyster dwelt, because he felt / A longing for seclusion;
Said he: "I love the stillness of / This spot. It’s like a cloister.:
(These words I quote because, you note, / They rhyme so well with oyster.)
A prying rat, believing that / She needed change of diet,
In search of such disturbed this much- / To-be-desired quiet.
To say the least, this tactless beast / Was apt to rudely roister:
She tapped his shell, and called him – well, / A name that hurt the oyster.
The latter’s pride was sorely tried, / He thought of what he could say,
Reflected what the common lot / Of vulgar molluscs would say;
Then caught his breath, grew pale as death, / And as his brow turned moister,
Began to close and nipped her nose! / Superb, dramatic oyster!
We note with joy that hoi polloi / Whom maidens bite the thumb at,
Are apt to try some weak reply / To things they should be dumb at.
THE MORAL, then, for crafty men / Is: When a maid has voiced her
Contemptuous heart, don’t think you’re smart, / But shut up – like the oyster.
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"Have you ever threatened either explicitly or implicitly to file a lawsuit or any other form of legal proceeding in this matter? If so, have you ever said or implied that you would refrain from or desist from filing such a lawsuit if the person or persons to be named as respondents would reverse their position and unban you from the AWADtalk board?"
Are you kidding teD, Keiva is much too clever to use the auspices as an Officer of the Illinois Court to harass and intimidate private citizens representing a non-profit private organization into doing his will by threating them with personal loss and tribulations by the accretion of legal costs necessary to the defense of a frivolous lawsuit.
Keiva is childish and vindictive and a bully, but he's not dumb. Unlike Awad, the State of Illinois has a Bar Association with imperative disbarments that are not subject to intimidation.
Well one by one everybody's jumping ship. Pretty soon it might just be Keiva and me. We might become fishing buddies.
But if we do, Keiva buddy, I'll weigh my own fish and I want to sit with my back to the motor in the back of the boat.
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Take a cue from the oyster.
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My one year anniversary on the wonderful adventure that AWAD has been for me would have been very soon. Thanks, Ken, for turning this adventure into a nightmare for me and many of my friends. Bye, all. Like Annastrophic said, those I care about and that care about me know how to get in touch. Those that have misplaced that info, I will continue to accept pms at this site. Hasta entonces.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Creation is difficult, getting a site to grow and florish is hard. Nurturing ideas, contributers, buiding a environment were ideas can freely be shared takes a huge amount of effert.
but, destruction,, destruction is easy.. one person, selfishly, can destroy something, just because it is not absolutely perfect.
nothing is perfect, and now, we have nothing
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320 |
Pyrrhus inherited the throne of Epirus in Northern Greece around 306 B.C.E., and as a young man proved himself on the battlefield again and again. Pyrrhus apparently had great strategic skills, but he also had the reputation of not knowing when to stop. In 281 he went to Italy and defeated the Romans at Heraclea and Asculum, but suffered bitterly heavy losses. The devastation led to his famous statement, "One more such victory and I am lost" -- hence the term "Pyrrhic victory" for any victory so costly as to be ruinous.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328 |
This sucks. I can't believe it has all come down to this... Like so many others of you, I see no point in hanging around when all of the people I love best are leaving. The atmosphere will never be quite the same again anyway, I'm afraid.
I won't be gone completely-- I'll probably come back once in a while to see if there are any developments and to check my PMs.
Thanks Anu and almost all of you for the fun times we've had on this Board. I'm sorry that they are coming to an end.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Inevitable, certain, ineluctable, ineludible, inescapable, inevasible, necessary, returnless, unavoidable, unescapable, unevadable.
Mournfulness, sadness, sorrowfulness, unhappiness; grieving, lamentation, mourning, sorrowing; dejection, depression, melancholy; agony, distress, dolor, misery, suffering, wretchedness.
Abandon, desert, forsake; reject, repudiate; cast, discard.
Adieu, farewell, goodbye.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
The Emperor of Ice-Cream
Call the roller of big cigars,
The muscular one, and bid him whip
In kitchen cups concupiscent curds.
Let the wenches dawdle in such dress
As they are used to wear, and let the boys
Bring flowers in last month's newspapers.
Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.
Take from the dresser of deal,
Lacking the three glass knobs, that sheet
On which she embroidered fantails once
And spread it so as to cover her face.
If her horny feet protrude, they come
To show how cold she is, and dumb.
Let the lamp affix its beam.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.
--Wallace Stevens (1879-1955)
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
> a waste of DNA
Reminds me of a new saying (to me at least) I picked up on a minesite this week....
[bold]"....nothing but an oxygen thief".[/bold]
stales
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
> ...and many others - Max, of troy, wwh, Wordwind, hev
Better add me to the list.
stales
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275 |
Jackie,
You know that you were the first one to welcome me on the board and sustained me with your lovely words and very sincere personal concern. Although I have not met you and did not really carry on a regular communication but still I hope you know that I have come to love you as if you have been an old friend. So you know how very sad and devastated I am to read this, your bombshell. It is that to me, a real bombshell that I was surprised with because I had been lulled into thinking that all is well. I will be in touch with you, I hope you will let me. I have been feeling on top of the world lately but this event has surely brought me down with a thud.
That is how much you mean to me.
I am misty-eyed and I feel so forlorn.
I am trying hard to post to keep this place going because I believe it is too precious to lose and that includes you and all the good and brilliant people from whom I have gotten so much delight being wordcrazy as I am.
Jackie, words cannot express.....however hard I will try.
I love you!
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 140
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 140 |
I decided a few weeks ago, for various reasons which I conveyed to Jackie privately, that I would not be having much to do with this site again. I simply looked in this afternoon in the hope of finding something that might perhaps change my mind.
Instead I found Jackie's bombshell, which I read along with a few other related threads, and I am appalled and very distressed at what has been going on here, especially in so far as it relates to Jackie herself.
I don't much care whether any of the "threats" I have read about were real or implied. It doesn't matter a lot to me precisely how or why or in what manner of words Jackie has been hurt by various postings and PMs. Clearly she has been hurt and distressed by these things, and when you hurt Jackie you hurt a whole lot of people on this board.
It is a great shame that what used to be a warm, friendly forum has been torn apart by this controversy. Sorry to rabbit on like this, but I felt I had to go public with my withdrawal from this place of pain and upset.
This is probably my longest posting ever (except for a certain 14 line offering back in the dear dead days beyond recall, eh, Jacqui?). And now, like quite a few others, I'm outa here, at least for the foreseeable future. To those who remain, good luck, and I hope things get better for you soon.
lusy
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Enjoy posting by yourself, Keiva.
I've no doubt you'll continue to wear the smug smile that can always be heard through the language of your posts, but you'll be smiling alone.
I'll look forward to continued conversation with the many wonderful people I've gotten to know here at AWAD.
Hyla
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74 |
What's all this about a lawsuit??
ARE THERE DEFENSES TO DEFAMATION?
Establishing the truth is the single most effective defense that can be offered. If the remark is truthful and it "hurts", is embarrassing, or subjects you to ridicule, there is little you can do. Unfortunately, unless the remark is false, you have no recourse.
snoot
The Lone Haranguer
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
unless the remark is false, you have no recourse.
Are you sure it has to be false?
Isn't there a situation where if the truth is published with "malice" ... which of course would have to be proved ... then there is a case?
Just wonderin' !!
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
No, not really Angel. I think everything has pretty much been said on both sides of this issue. My input would be moot.
The only reason I made a few posts with nothing in them is that I thought it was a shame, and rather mean, of Keiva to go all the way back to March to look for a post by AnnaStrophic to bring back to the top so that it could be "implied" that she was AnnaGraham by inference. (since the threads wound up right beside each other)
And I would hope that he is mature enough to own up to this since I think going all the way back to a March post to add "yes - I am confirming what both women said is true" seems a little way out there.
And it saddened me that it would stay that way since I know the inference is false.
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