|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I found this word first in a Newsweek article about adjustments Silicon valley CEO's are ;having to make since the abrupt downturn in avaliability of venture capital: "The ones who took billion-dollar bites from the apple are suffering postlapsarian blues.
I searched for it, and found a couple quotes, e.g.:
How would you compare the rational ideal of the Houyhnhnms with the role of reason in Milton’s paradise? Are the Houyhnhnms Swift’s idea of what prelapsarian man might have become, the Yahoos his idea of what postlapsarian man has become? 203, 215
So it evidently refer's to the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise, because Eve took a bite out of the apple.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Seems there are many lapsarians, pre- and post-, sub- and supra-, wwh, all finding significance in the original "lapse" in the Garden of Adam and Eve. This from the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
Sub-Lapsa’rian, Supra-Lapsarian.
The sub-lapsarian maintains that God devised His scheme of redemption after the “lapse” or fall of Adam, when He elected some to salvation and left others to run their course. The supra-lapsarian maintains that all this was ordained by God from the foundation of the world, and therefore before the “lapse” or fall of Adam.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"IN ADAM'S FALL WE SINNED ALL"
The New England Primer begins with the words "In Adam's Fall we sinned all." This was a book designed to teach children the alphabet and the fundamentals of reading
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148 |
As the others have pointed out, yes -lapsarian refers to the fall of humanity for rejecting God (it wasn't just that they ate the fruit; the real issue was that they basically wanted to overthrow God). It's interesting, actually, to see these Biblically-based words and ideas become common, especially today in such a secular world... another great word is 'post- [and pre-] diluvian', meaning after [or before] the Flood.
alexis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
I think 'before the flood' is more familiarly rendered as 'antediluvian'..
()
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148 |
>antediluvian
You're right, often it is, but I have seen post-deluvian as well; of course, it doesn't roll quite as nicely off the tongue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Antedeluvian, of course, means "before the flood." I'm still OK with post-deluvian.
Apres le deluge (parm my Frainch)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
all this was ordained by God from the foundation of the world, and therefore before the ?lapse?
Interesting late Middle English Advent carol we sang one year that didn't even mention Jesus. The general gist of the carol was that it was a good thing that Adam lapsed because otherwise Mary wouldn't have gotten to be the Queen of Heaven.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
postlapsarian - the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise, because Eve took a bite out of the apple.
Here's a thought that niggles at my mind once in awhile.
Suppose Adam had refused to eat the apple?
And only Eve was forced from Eden?
A world full of women - what would change and how?
Pondering ... pondering ...
What would that have done to history?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Apparently only male chauvinists wrote Scripture, so no feminist ideas were recorded. It is mildly blaspemous to suggest that God would have created a man first, and then a female as an afterthought.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
In the Merriam-Webster word site I found a related word:
degringolade \day-gran-guh-LAHD\ (noun)
: a rapid decline or deterioration (as in strength, position, or condition) : downfall
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
I'm not too sure, but didn't god create eden, and Adam, and enjoin Adam not to eat from tree of good and evil.. and then, after that, he created Eve from Adams rib?-- and likewise, God gave Adam (but not Eve) instructions to be fruitfull and multiply.. (but not Eve)
so, when Eve ate from the tree of good and evil, it was not really sinfull, because she had never been told not to by god, only by Adam. likewise, among orthodox religious jews,(and many christian sects) it is wrong for men to use condoms, or any sort of birht control, but not for women...
(but since the story of the creation is told in two places in genisis, and each one is slightly different, there is some ambiguety.)-- and if Eve got tossed, there still would have been Lilith..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Ah! The old girlfriend raises her lovely head.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Yes. She is (one of) my goddess(es). Adam rejected her because she wanted to be 'on top', and then went whin(g)ing to G-d to make him a new woman. So there you go, ribs and all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
When the Anglos moved in, the Hispanics moaned " The neighborhood has degringoladed!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
postlapsarian
It sounds a little like post-lactarian - any thoughts? Mr Bingley will have a view, I'm sure and I know that Max will too.
Don't google - there is only one hit on the word and it gives it away too easily.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Looking up Lilith brought me to dandy word I found quite a while ago: apotropaic = warding off evil. http://archives.emazing.com/archives/word/2001-08-02What bunch of garbage the Lilith myths are.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Max: Goddam revisionists spoil so many things. Makes God sound senile to have made Eve as an afterthought. And idea of God allowing Adam to indulge in unlimited bestiality makes taking a bite out of an apple trivial. Lilith myths: http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/lillith.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Max: perhaps you should serve notice when such an obscure allusion is perpetrated.
That's not fair.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
But Gentleman, we digress. Be remindful of Wow's intriguing musement... "Here's a thought that niggles at my mind once in awhile.
Suppose Adam had refused to eat the apple?
And only Eve was forced from Eden?
A world full of women" - - - wowThink about it guys "A world full of women" and only us. Which of you would cast the first refusal of the apple? Now before all you guys go raising your hands, remember the biblical abomination of the female and the direct command... "And your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you"Now boys, I mean, don't you just love these wonderful creatures that say words like "niggles"? And - - Ain't biology grand? ...-  -
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
And what if Eve had nestled up to Adam and said, "Hmmm, don't you think a little fresh roasted snake sounds really good?" Lilith -- Adam rejected herSo did Frasier...is this a trend? The Only WO'N!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148 |
Ack, having been away for a weekend this has gone on indeed... and ack _again_ at that daft mistake re ante- and post-diluvian!  Regards all the Adam and Eve stuff... the commands about being fruitful and not eating of the forbidden tree were given to *both* Adam and Eve, so it was a sin for her to eat it. You might be surprised how much female viewpoint/history is recorded in the Bible - Song of Songs is an amazing paean to female and male sexuality. Women were and are certainly no afterthought in creation! alexis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
had Eve been banished alone, ... biology indicates that there would be no history
Not so sure SilkMuse! In the dim and distant past I am sure I heard that women could - in dire circumstances - produce offspring without males participating ... but would produce only female offspring!
Any Doctors in the House to confirm - (either doctorates in medicine or biology related sciences acceptable!)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
well there was always Herland a utopian view of a world inhabited only by woman... who only could bear female children.. i'll have to look up the author (three names, also wrote The Yellow Wallpaper... Charlotte Perkins Gilman... and the whole book is available on line.. if you's like to read it.. (its a short book) http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/etexts/n4558.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137 |
I'm no doctor but was taught in school that there was a possibility for females to reproduce without men. I'm willing to explain the theory to anyone interested in my non-scientific english.
But we'd certainly miss ya guys.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
But we'd certainly miss ya guys.Thanks, ladymoon ! (sniff) We'd miss you, too. (especially since we'd be the ones who were missing!  ) The Only WO'N!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Dr. Bill, I was somewhat taken aback on following your link to find a word of the day site, the word being pogonip, with a quote by Lily Munster.
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I remember having read a very funny poem purporting to be a conversation between Lilith and Eve giving a Lilith's eye view of Adam. Does anyone else know it? Able to quote?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Reminds me of the story who walked into a pharmacy and asked the elderly, mean-as-a-snake woman behind the counter, "Give me a dozen condoms, miss."
She replied "Here they are, and don't you 'miss' me, young man!"
He said, "OK, better make it thirteen."
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear TEd: At a summer resort pharmacy a bashful young man started to leave the store when he saw that both store people were women. But one of them intercepted him before he could get to door, sensing his problem. She assured him that he need not feel embarrassed about making his needs known.
He hesitated and then blurted: "What can you give me for a persistent erection?"
With no hesitation, she replied: "Would you accept a half interest in the store?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I'm no doctor but was taught in school that there was a possibility for females to reproduce without men. I'm willing to explain the theory to anyone interested in my non-scientific english.
But we'd certainly miss ya guys.
For another view of such a world, read "Five to Twelve" by Edmund Cooper ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,548 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,548 Likes: 1 |
I'm no doctor but was taught in school that there was a possibility for females to reproduce without men.
I have to register a healthy dose of scepticism as to the accuracy of that teaching, well-intentioned though it might have been at the time.
To date it's not possible. Some less complicated organisms (frogs, for example) have had their eggs "tricked" into dividing without being fertilized, but no human ova to my knowledge (sub-encyclopedic, I confess).
Theoretically it's not impossible but only in the sense that it's impossible to disprove anything, "really." The whole cloning scientific community is working on figuring out how to do it; Dolly-the-sheep was a breakthrough but needed vast technical support at every step.
No one knows what the product of such a process would be, of course; any of so many things could go awry along the way...and from there we slip back into the realm of speculative fiction, where the idea has been dealt with at length in the past and where it must remain for a while longer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,548 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,548 Likes: 1 |
Interestingly, All Things Considered just this evening had a segment on attempts at cloning human embryos, with a very brief discussion of moral, scientific, and political ramifications of the practice, and a comparison of the analogous evolution of in-vitro fertilization (IVF) twenty or so years ago. Can't give you a URL yet because the show is still airing but by tomorrow May 7 it ought to be available through www.npr.org/programs (or even after 10PM EDT tonight).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137 |
I think the key word in the whole theory is possible. To date it hasn't been done, but that hardly makes it not possible. Isn't possibility the whole driving force behind scientific research. Not discovering again what has been done but reaching out into the realm of "fiction", sailing around the world, flying to the moon, cloning sheep.
It would be completely a scientific process to be sure. ( I will also give you that I was taught at one of the most liberal colleges around, teaching such a thing does have a huge liberal bent.)
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,347
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
780
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
