#6394 - 09/12/00 11:58 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 200
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absolutely marvelous article, tsuwm, thankyou.
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#6395 - 09/12/00 03:54 PM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
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Thanks for the link, tsuwm, it was extremely interesting. It strikes me as sad that 75 years ago, an American linguist was already writing about the differences in combative terms, exalting the superiority of the American variety, and looking forward to the ultimate triumph of American English. While his vision of an all-conquering American English is looking ever more accurate, to me that is a cause for sadness, not a reason to gloat in victory. I notice that he made no mention of the orthographical differences. I tried doing a search for the post here which mentioned that these were apparently a deliberate attempt by Webster to differentiate American English from British English . It also seems to me that Mencken's personal feelings coloured his perceptions quite markedly. I quote:
"In the face of a new situation the American shows a far greater linguistic resourcefulness and daring than the Englishman. Movie is obviously better than cinema, just as cow-catcher is better than plough and job-holder is better than public-servant."
Surely that is a statement of personal opinion, subjective in the extreme. A phrase I heard on the BBC has stuck with me - "Coca-colanisation." This seems to be what Mencken mentioned, and it is a tragedy. The many different varieties of English add colour and spice to the tongue, and should be celebrated, and treated as of equal worth, not viewed as targets for conquest by one virulent strain. With the increasing dominance of American culture, the survival of other varieties of English is a refreshing tonic to the homogeneity being imposed on the global community. This is not an anti-American diatribe, rather an anti-assimilation diatribe. Vive la différence! Kia ora mai.
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#6399 - 09/13/00 02:38 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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member
Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 167
Loc: Australia
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Obviously it's all a facet of globalisation and should be on the anti-globalisation agenda of the protesters who have been in Melbourne protesting at the World Economic Forum (and in Seattle, etc before that). To the barricades!!!!
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#6400 - 09/13/00 04:37 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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old hand
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1010
Loc: Switzerland
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>Obviously it's all a facet of globalisation < I'd rather call it a classical mother-daughter relationship  made more complicated by the age of the contestants..
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#6401 - 09/13/00 05:00 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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addict
Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
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>I'd rather call it a classical mother-daughter relationship made more complicated by the age of the contestants<
Possibly in the case of British vs American. Max, if remember correctly, is a New Zealander. Sibling rivalry?
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#6402 - 09/13/00 06:47 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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old hand
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1010
Loc: Switzerland
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Hi Bridget,
>Possibly in the case of British vs American. Max, if remember correctly, is a New Zealander<
Yes, but Mencken's grumbling was about the relationship between Britain and USA. Which makes Max a (nearly) neutral observer.
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#6403 - 09/13/00 07:24 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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addict
Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
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wsieber, wasn't it you who posted somewhere else about languages being like genepools and stray offshoots on isolated islands breeding weird and wonderful new words?
I confess I was thinking of that and of Max's wonderful rant in this thread (Max, I agree with it all! Difference and variety!) rather than about Mencken himself. Didn't specify - sorry!
And if Max / NZ English is to be considered a child of Br English and a sibling of Am English, from my knowledge of family dynamics, he might be an interested observer but I wouldn't guarantee he's neutral!
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#6404 - 09/13/00 08:52 AM
Re: British v. American redux (part 17)
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
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I tried doing a search for the post here which mentioned that these were apparently a deliberate attempt by Webster to differentiate American English from British English.I most recently read that bit of history in "The Art of Spelling," a new book by Marilyn Vos Savant (great name!!), who is an American "agony aunt" for science and language questions: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393049035/o/qid=968852067/sr=2-1/103-8370088-0647806In Chapter 10 of his "Mother Tongue," - which I happen to have at hand - Bill Bryson also makes mention of Noah Webster's deliberate attempt to differentiate American from British spelling, though he's not as categorical as Marilyn is: "All Webster's work was informed by a passionate patriotism..."
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#6407 - 09/13/00 06:29 PM
Re: Marilyn
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
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Where do y'all read her
I have read a couple of her columns in an NZ paper that seems to get them sporadically, and I bought her book "Brain Power." Sadly, even reading her work didn't help this monkey bang out another Hamlet.
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#6408 - 09/14/00 07:17 AM
Re: monkeys
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
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Max, I think your problem lies in the relative difficulty of amassing 999,999 other monkeys and keyboards (who authored that quote, anyway?) ... and speaking of quotes, who was it who said "The US and Great Britain are two countries separated by a single language"? I'm thinking it was either Mencken or Churchill (in which case the country order would naturally be reversed).
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#6410 - 09/14/00 06:33 PM
Re: monkeys
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
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George Bernard Shaw, borrowed by Churchill?
I don't know whether my least favourite egomaniac borrowed the quote, but it's definitely from Shaw.
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#6411 - 09/15/00 12:43 AM
coming unthreaded
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
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Am I the only who has trouble accessing past threads (i.e. those not on the first page of the list of threads) in flat mode? I can get the first page of the thread OK, but then when I click on the number 2, 3, or whatever or on show all, I could end up almost anywhere. Certainly not in the same thread anyway.
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
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#6412 - 09/15/00 02:32 AM
Re: coming unthreaded
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
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Yep - I've noticed it too. With most of the older threads you can only see the first page in flat mode. When you click "show all" or any other page you end up somewhere else entirely - "Viruses/Virii?" - seems a popular place to end up - hope that its not significant!
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#6413 - 09/15/00 07:06 AM
Re: coming unthreaded
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old hand
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1010
Loc: Switzerland
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I also first get gibberish in such cases, but at the end (after much scrolling down) there is the thread chosen. If this is not so with you, have you switched "cookies on" in your browser? if not, try it. If it still doesn't work, it could be a memory issue (I have 128MB).
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