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#5834 - 08/31/00 03:31 AM Re: off topic
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
Most probably it's the 'plus' sign that stuck in its THROAT (it still doesn't work).


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#5835 - 08/31/00 03:54 AM Re: British vs American
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
It does seem that old discussions are increasingly hard to find and this one will run and run. If you use the Search thingy at the top of the page (not the one at the bottom) and put either UK English or US English you will find quite a few references (make sure you set the date range to "all posts" not just postings made in the last week.

In Q&A about words the "UK English - US English Dictionary" thread helped us to discover some useful online dictionaries.

I think your summary is very good, we do like our little extra vowels and people from the United States are so proud of having discarded them. I think one of life's adventures is crossing an ocean, having assumed that all English speaking peoples understand each other and then finding out that, even with global media and communications we can't even agree on how to describe a few basic bodily functions. It amused me all the way through my twenties and I hope that we keep our differences long enough to amuse a few more people!


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#5836 - 08/31/00 03:55 AM Re: off topic
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
Most probably it's the 'plus' sign that stuck in its THROAT (it still doesn't work).

Is not that equine deceased, and hence immune from flagellation? I speak as somene who has had something surgically removed from his THROAT, and that's the lay phrase the doctors used when talking about the procedure: "We're going to get that fishbone out of your throat." While I recognise that NZ English is not highly esteemed, I know that noone I know would have difficulty with understanding and uaing "throat in that manner.

"Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of humanity" - Albert Einstein

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#5837 - 08/31/00 04:49 AM Re: British vs American
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>And what about Scottish, Irish, and Welsh -> are they considered forms of English too?

Mmmm - very brave.

Having lived in Wales and Scotland I would hesitate to answer this question. In general, people in Scotland don't seem to talk about "English". Even in school the lesson that I called "English" is called "language" to recognise the contribution made to our language by the rest of Britain (but maybe not the rest of the world?!).

In Welsh schools the Welsh language is taught. In some schools for five hours each week, in others as the main method of communication. Welsh is a Celtic language, its nearest cousins being Cornish and Breton. The language as spoken today is descended directly from Early Welsh, which emerged as a distinct tongue as early as the sixth century AD. It is thus the oldest living language of Great Britain and among the oldest in Europe. The Welsh Language Boardhttp://www.bwrdd-yr-iaith.org.uk gives an overview of the issues. All official communication in Wales is now required to be bilingual. http://www.budgetbritain.com/roughguide/wales_language.asp is also interesting.

Examples of the way English is/was spoken in Wales can be found in the poems of Dylan Thomas (who died in 1953), he can be heard at http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=151. I'm sure that there are plenty of modern examples of Welsh speech around too.

In Scotland, only a few schools have Gaelic units. I know one in Edinburgh where the only teaching medium is Gaelic for the first two years. The local newspaper prints some articles in both English and Gaelic (pronounced Gallic in Scotland). There is a reasonable discussion of the language in http://www.budgetbritain.com/roughguide/scotland_language.asp
The other important language is "Scots", to quote the site mentioned above, "While Gaelic has undergone something of a renaissance, Scots, or "Lallans", as spoken by the "English-speaking" majority of Scottish people, is still struggling for recognition. In form, at least, it is closely related to the English spoken south of the border, since it began life as a northern branch of Anglo-Saxon. In the early fifteenth century, it replaced Latin as the country's main literary and documentary language, but has since been drawn closer to southern varieties of English. Some people claim it to be a separate language, which has suffered the same systematic repression as Gaelic, while others reject this view, considering it to be, at best, an artificial amalgamation of local dialects. Robbie Burns is the most obvious literary exponent of the Scots language, but there has been a revival this century led by poets such as Hugh MacDiarmid." You can find examples of the writing of Robbie Burns http://home.t-online.de/home/hoffmann.t/bobburns.htm and Hugh MacDiarmidhttp://www.mala.bc.ca/~lanes/english/flood.htm.
If you want to hear examples of recent speech in Scotland then look out for the film of "Trainspotting" or look out for Billy Connoly.

I have noticed, since I moved to Scotland that much of modern American derives from Scottish, rather than English usage. Exapmles include "pinkie" for little finger and "Main Street" rather than "High Street". I'd be interested to know the number of Scottish immigrants compared to English in the early days of America.

I'm sure that there some Scottish and Welsh people out there who have views on current language.



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#5838 - 08/31/00 07:33 AM Re: British vs American
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Jo, it's good to see you back here. I've missed your thoughtful posts (the above being a superb example). You might find country-by-country immigration stats at http://ellisisland.org/, though they would reflect mainly the 19th century (I'd try to find it for you but the links aren't responding right now). Ellis Island, NY was the triage point for immigrants and has recently been renovated and turned into a museum.


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#5839 - 08/31/00 08:45 AM Re: British vs American
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Thank you Anna - I've missed you all too.

I'm still wading knee deep in postings trying to catch up! I'm not surprised that new people can't find anything.


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#5840 - 08/31/00 09:17 AM Re: off topic
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
>>Most probably it's the 'plus' sign that stuck in its THROAT

Or maybe Pearl's at its NECK, she said whilst choking back the laughter threatening to strangulate her throat.


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#5841 - 09/01/00 12:50 PM Re: British vs American
apples + oranges Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/30/00
Posts: 46
Loc: Canada
I was wondering. If a school-aged child from England moved to USA and vice versa, and the child had a spelling test but added or lacked the extra vowels, would the teacher be allowed to penalize them for it?

Can't reach me here? E-mail me duskydreamer@icqmail.com or ICQ me 71367484.

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#5842 - 09/01/00 04:14 PM Re: British vs American
Jazzoctopus Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 1094
Loc: Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U...
I was wondering. If a school-aged child from England moved to USA and vice versa, and the child had a spelling test but added or lacked the extra vowels, would the teacher be allowed to penalize them for it?

Seeing as both forms of these words are accepted spellings, I can't see how a teacher would be allowed to mark off for this.



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#5843 - 09/01/00 04:39 PM Re: British vs American
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
In reply to:

Seeing as both forms of these words are accepted spellings, I can't see how a teacher would be allowed to mark off for this.


Here in NZ, that is certainly true, at least of words like "colour". Given the increasing prevalence of spell-checkers set to US English as default, there is even a campaign underway to adopt US spelling as standard here - angels and ministers of grace defend us!


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