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#5654 - 08/29/00 07:35 PM Re: Virus as a neuter gender
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10521
Loc: this too shall pass
>Now where IS that Bill Buckley fellow when we need him?

I don't think Buckley is quixotic enough to take on the OED on *this matter; see for example:

"They were given physical, social and psychological examinations and then, placed in quarantine, cold viruses were deposited in their nasal passages."
-W.F. Buckley

the earliest citation that the OED has for the plural is this: 1908 Jrnl. Compar. Path. & Therapeutics XIII. 59 "Filters which are efficient for the arrest of the smallest of the known visible microbes allow the viruses of these diseases to pass through their pores."

as to the original question, why not virii?, here is an intersting discussion: http://language.perl.com/misc/virus.html


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#5655 - 08/30/00 10:06 AM Re: u or non-u
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
>What are the orthographical differences between Anglicans and other religious groups?


Despite tsuwm's sigh's, I consider the question to be serious enough to need of an answer as it stands. I am not an expert in religious matters (or any others, for that matter) but I would consider it probable that Protestants, with their work-ethis, would not have much use for "e"s and therefore would favour "bees." :-)

Certain Druidic tribes of Ancient Britains in North West England certainly used the Dee a great deal, especially in matters relating to transport, but also as a Deity.

Worshippers of Sauron, in Mordor and out, were afraid of the "I."

"Jay," symbol of gaudiness, was eschewed by Quakers asnd (I think) Anabaptists.

Irish Catholics (and probably those of countries other than England) use "Q"s on Saturday night for the purpose of confession.

The Methodist temperance literature of the Nineteenth century gave prominence to "T"s.

"U" are likely to be targetted by Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and similar prozelytizing faiths ("W" if your partner is with you.)

"Eggs" are used by Mother Nature worshippers as an object of veneration

and, finally, "Y" is aked by members of all sects of the Xtian faith and many others. Does that include Bhuddists, or do they accept without asking?
:-)



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#5656 - 08/30/00 10:17 AM Re: u or non-u
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
> I am fit to be tied -- "definion" is *way too anglicized for this poor yank

Oh Max! it is my turn to be disappointed
- I had interpreted "definion" as a particularly fine portmanteau for "definite opinion" or, possibly, "definitive opinion" which would be even more grand.

Ah, Well! maybe I will use it anyway. I am a great believer in the efficacy of serendipity for the further development of the English language.


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#5657 - 08/31/00 01:35 PM orthographical differences
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
Rhu (if I may address you informally):

That was absolutely hilarious.

But J was also avoided by L'Enfant when laying out the city of Washington, DC. The east-west streets are named A, B, C, etc. But there is no J street, either north of Constitution Avenue or south of it. One explanation I heard many years ago was that for political reasons no one wanted a street that might become associated with John Jay. Not certain there is any truth to it, but I can attest to the fact that there is no J Street in DC, nor has there ever been.

_________________________
TEd

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#5658 - 09/01/00 04:44 AM Plural of virus
Bridget Offline
addict

Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
>virus is by Latin definition a masculine noun<

Um. I learned Latin at school for (I think!) six years. LIke wsieber, I think you need to be careful to distinguish between the gender of a noun and its declension.

I also think you need to be aware that there are five different regular declensions of nouns in Latin. (I refuse to explore the question of exceptions to formal rules, since I don't remember enough!) Important in this instance is that two of these declensions have nominative singular ending in -us. So it is impossible to determine the plural from this nominative singular ending alone.

Like wsieber, I searched the web. (Those six years were a long time ago...) I typed 'latin noun' into yahoo.com, and the first match that came up was titled 'What's the plural of virus?' Synchronicity? Or just affected by everyone else having searched for it recently? Anyway, the link:

http://www.perl.com/pub/language/misc/virus.html

You can also follow the links on the first page of search results to get full details of the five declensions in all cases.


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#5659 - 09/01/00 09:43 AM Re: orthographical differences
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204

Rhu (if I may address you informally):
I have no problem with that, TEd - in fact I will answer to just about any name, if it precedes the well known phrase, " - - - may I buy you a pint?" (Come to think of it, the phrase is nothing like so well known as I would wish.)


> That was absolutely hilarious

Many thanks:
If you check out my given name, you may agree that everything I write or say, be it never so dull and drab, has to be, by definition (or definion,) Hilarious.

Is there any chance that Washington D.C. missed out J for reasons of religious sensitivity? The initial is used over here, occasionally, to denote the right-hand angle of our triangular deity.

I have to admit that it's more usually used to mean "joint", though.


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#5660 - 09/05/00 12:29 PM Re: Plural of virus
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
>I also think you need to be aware that there are five different regular declensions of nouns in Latin. (I refuse to explore the question of exceptions to formal rules, since I don't remember enough!) Important in this instance is that two of these declensions have nominative singular ending in -us. So it is impossible to determine the plural from this nominative singular ending alone.

Bridget:

I thnk there are five different cases, nominative, genetive, dative, accusative, and ablative, within a declension. I honestly don't remember there being five declensions. I thought declining a noun was the act of listing the singular and plural cases for the noun.

But enough. I think we're beating a dead Horace!

_________________________
TEd

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#5661 - 09/06/00 06:21 AM Re: Plural of virus
Bridget Offline
addict

Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
>I thnk there are five different cases, nominative, genetive, dative, accusative, and ablative, within a declension. I honestly don't remember there being five declensions.<

There's also a vocative case, although it is only distinguishable from nominative in 2nd declension singular.
I think I learned the 'last' two of the five declensions in about my fourth year of Latin, so it's highly possible you never got to them (I think you said you did two years).

As for the point about Latin teaching grammar and sentence structure, I agree wholeheartedly. My study of Latin is also the only reason I can (or could) struggle through the articles of an Italian or Spanish newspaper and understand at least the subject under discussion even if not the finer points. Great for vocabulary.


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#5662 - 09/06/00 10:45 AM Re: Virii - why not?
cowboy Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 6
Loc: Memphis (Shelby Co) Tenn
Actually, if you stick with the Latin, and the word virus has not been anglicized, the plural would be "viri," nominative, masculine plural.


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#5663 - 09/06/00 10:55 AM Re: Virii - why not?
cowboy Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 6
Loc: Memphis (Shelby Co) Tenn
I just found this site, and I am thrilled. How exciting to find such a chat room. I love Latin, and set aside time each morning to study it.

Others wrote about declining nouns in Latin. Virus is a masculine noun and is declined as follows:
Singular = Nom Case Virus; gen case, viri; dative case,viro; accusative case = virum; ablative case = viro.

Plural: Nom. viri; gen = virorum; dat = viris; accusative = viros; ablative = viris.




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