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Dear Bel seems to have been the only person to read my post about the two meanings of Hamper before it fell off the page..
but it might be fun to find some of the less common homonyms (sound alike, spelled alike, two different meanings..)
tsuwm has done a definative report on cleave..(some where in the past) i tossed in hamper (to redeem my self, in what was an other wise a non word post.)
i know a few others.. but how about you?
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seller-cellar
neigh-nay
bough- bow
just off the top of my head!
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>sound alike, spelled alike, two different meanings..
(before we all follow down that other path)
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ear = organ of hearing, ear= grain bearing spike of a cereal plant,esp. of corn
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crow, shore, mate, ball, bowl and cricket! The last one has three meanings, btw  I'm sure that I can come up with some more but I have a web page to write first. 
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wow: You've given us homophones (different spellings). Helen was asking for homonyms. She referred back to "cleave," which has two rather opposite meanings while spelled and pronounced the same.
Another well-known example is "sanction."
What's with the spellcheck? It questioned the words homophones and homonyms. Wanted to know if I meant "homosexual."
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What's with the spellcheck? It questioned the words homophones and homonyms. Wanted to know if I meant "homosexual."Well, what do you expect from such an advanced product as Microsloth© Windoze©? 
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>another well-known example is sanction. actually®, sanction is only one word which has come (through the enantiodromic process (this really is a yart®) :) to have two nearly opposite senses: to justify as permissable or to attach a penalty to transgression. http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=451
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Microsloth© Windoze©
I don't think Uncle Bill had anything to do with our dear Ćnigma.
The truth, dear Slithy, is, alas, much less romantic than the mystique. I'll enlighten you by PM if you wish, but it is more fun to revel in her seeming capriciousness.
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about 2 for the money
we say
prendere due piccioni con una fava:
to catch two pigeons by means of (just) one broad bean (used as a bait).
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"Set," as I recall, sets the record for the largest number of separate definitions in OED. Of course, we are looking for a set of words with completely distinct meanings, and is difficult to gauge what is "completely" distinct.
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Thank, Tsuwm--
Yes, cleave (one spelling, one way of saying) traces back to two different root words.
Hamper too
One meaning of hamper is to impeed,
an other word, (that is spelled the same) is
Hamper (from hanaper) a basket originally used to carry goblets, (hanapes)and by extention, a basket used to store or transport clothing or valuables.
i haven't checked out crow, or cricket or Rubrick's other words...
some words are tricky.. as was pointed out in another thread, Cosmetics and Cosmos (the universe) --very different meanings-- both trace back to a greek word for Order, neatness.. one makes cosmetic repairs to appearence by putting on fresh lipstick, and the world around us is ordered too, day follows night, etc.
its not as easy as it sounds..but we are up to the challenge.
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With honors to Max, I add the pair median/Median. One man's mede is another man's persian.: http://www.bartleby.com/100/158.27.html
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"Bad" can mean lousy, or "bad" can mean "good." It's slang, though it seems to be coming into common usage as my generation grows up and passes this usage to our progeny.
"Book" is one, though the multiple meanings aren't contradictory. There are many, many words like this, but the meaning is usually obvious in context.
One of my favorites is "order" which can have different meanings to a thermodynamicist, a waiter, an artist, a lawyer, and a mathematician. And the conflation of meanings caused considerable misunderstanding in the US
I have a mild interest in technical or scientific words that can have different meanings, sometimes in direct conflict, as well as technical words whose meanings are borrowed or corrupted by laypersons.
Example of the first would be the term "closed system" which has multiple, non-equivalent definitions according to different texts. There was another example I discovered during an argument some years ago and involved a dispute over the meaning of the term "natural number" or maybe it was "integer." I can't recall which, but I remember scouring every math book in the company library before finding a very old text that actually agreed with this person whom I (though I was not taking part in the dispute) thought was quite mistaken.
An example of the second might be the use of the words "net" and "web" and "internet" and "usenet" as synonyms. Frankly, most engineers just say that the laypeople are wrong here, while I'm willing to allow that the common understanding of words don't have to be technically correct.
For example, ask most people how to accelerate their car and, besides a stare indicating that you're an idiot for having asked such a stupid question, you would get the quick answer of "step on the gas." Someone who remembered a bit from algebra might note that a deceleration is just a negative acceleration, so stepping on the gas would also accelerate the car. An engineer would include these answers and add that turning the steering wheel while maintaining speed also accelerates the car. Someone trying to be clever might add that one might shift weight in the car, or slam into a wall, or note that they had no car to accelerate, or make some other irritating and seemingly obtuse and irrelevant observation.
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"Bad" can mean lousy, or "bad" can mean "good." It's slang, though it seems to be coming into common usage as my generation grows up and passes this usage to our progeny.
Dude, that is soooo 1999. Bad-a** is quite common though. A few others now are sweet, money and the ever-popular awesome and cool. A long, drawn out "sh*t" has many uses now, including indicating that you're impressed with some thing.
Ex. "Sh***t, that sweet new game is so money!" But of course, you can't articulate it.
We weren't talking about this though were we . . . .
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Pound (noun) vs. Pound (verb)
Pale (noun) vs. Pale (adverb)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cricket the game, and cricket the insect seem to both go back to the middle french-- criquet... but this is not definative.. care to give more history Rubrick?
and the two meaning of crow.. a bird, or triumphant call (or bragging) both go back to OHG--krawa--a word for a black bird, or the loud call of the blackbird, or for the people of the blackbird (Crow nation is one of america's aboriginal tribes.)-- but maybe i missed something? if so, please enlighten us..
but just below.. Crowd-- a multitude is related to crowd, to press together, or hurry, and both go back to a root word for curds!
but Crowd, a musical intrument.. doesn't.
mind,you, i didn't know till 2 minutes ago there was a intrument called a crowd.. but it just goes to show you...
i have mental list of about 10-- sometimes 15..(when i have been thinking about it.) but i bet there are lots...
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(to) row (a boat)& row (a line)
(to) bear (carry) & bear (animal)
(to) lie (tell an untruth) & (to) lie (prone or supine)
lay (song) & (to) lay (eggs)
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Of course, we are looking for a set of words with completely distinct meanings, and it is difficult to gauge what is "completely" distinct.
Well said, Keiva. I was thinking the same thing as I read some of the posts.
Dude, that is soooo 1999.
Dude, that is so 1999.
2 for the money
Poor 1.
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FallibleFiend (I've been reading that as FallibleF riend since you first showed up, shows you how fallible I am! ...and welcome aboard, our FallibleFiend friend!) used this word in the above post, so my thanks for the reference! 1. Lay (as in recline, or set down) 2. Lay (as in layman) 3. Lay (as in sex) Well 5, if you wanna add in Ken and Potato Chips!)
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er, Whit, I'd suspect that #1 and #3 are not entirely unrelatd ... . . . or rather, unre lated...
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"root" has FOUR variants I'm aware of - is this a record?(hehehe - can't get my mind away from the gutter)
stales
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stales, the fourth meaning does not go beyond the Antipodes, I don't think, you ol' wombat you 
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bella donna: beautiful woman [italian]
belladonna: A poisonous Eurasian perennial herb, ... also called deadly nightshade.
----- from Italian bella, beautiful + donna, lady
I do not comment; I merely report.
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belladonna: A poisonous Eurasian perennial herb, ... also called deadly nightshade.
When used in carefully controlled quantities it had the effect of dilating a person's pupils. Large pupils are subconsciously associated with increased interest on the part of the pupil owner and therefore make the person seem more attractive to the person to whom the interest appears to be directed.
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But...
Rule:
1) To measure.
2) To mark a page off like a measure.
3) Reign (as a monarch, e.g.).
4) To decide as a court case.
1 and 2 are clearly related.
3 and 4 seem similar.
There is some vague sense in which they are maybe all related. Perhaps something like "To apply some standard to an object or event."
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riddle--OE root rćdan-- meaning: puzzling or mystifying.
riddle--OE root hriddel-- a coarse seive.. (or anything like that-- riddled with holes or errors..)
or
Poke--ONF -- related to pocket-- a bag or sack (as in a pig in a poke)
Poke--ME-- related to Poken-- to prod, jab, thrust.. (poke in the ribs, or poke in the eye..or even poke fun at..
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Belladonna comments? Where is Ms. Marduk? Would bel add-on a comment here?
And speaking of adding:
adder: one who performs addition
adder: viper (alteration of a naddre, a snake)
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Apology for being obtuse ... the top of my head doesn't seem to be where the synapse for reading lurks.
Tsuwm rightly noted entries should sound alike,(be) spelled alike,
Foiled again in effort to keep a thread going! Ah well, here's a late entry:
Foil:
representation of a leaf in heraldry;
thin sheet of metal or other substance (i.e. plastic etc);
small arcs between the cusps of a Gothic window or arch;
in architecture to ornament with foils;
some thing or person who sets off another by contrast;
setback;
check;
repulse;
defeat;
In wrestling a throw not resulting in a complete fall;
In hunting the track or scent of a hunted animal;
A light, blunt edged fencing sword, button-ended;
also the excercise of fencing with foils;
trample or tread down;
When I finally think of one ya godda admit I can really pound it into the ground!
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foil-- from fouler (from full as in to full cloth..) came to mean trample , defeat, frustrate! (Foiled Again!)
foil from folium (a blade, as in a blade or leave of grass) a thin piece sheet of metal.. (aluminum foil) -- the same under a paste (fake) jewels to make it appear brilliant.. or a person who does the same for a comedian..(a straight man)
foil-- a narrow sword.. origin unknown..
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adder: one who performs addition
adder: viper (alteration of a naddre, a snake)
and
adder: Edmund, Duke of Edinburgh. Baaaaaaa!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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>Rubrick just metioned somewhere "there's that rag, again"< Rag: n. cloth; n. newspaper; n. music, a composition in ragtime; v. to harangue, rail at, scold, torment, tease (also ragging) no feminist-slur intendedAnd this marked origin unknown (sounds like a job for TsuwmMan!...faster than a reading bullet! ) n. 1. any of various hard rocks 2.a large roofing slate that is rough on one side (rocks?...stales?) And this: n. chiefly Brit: an outburst of boisterous fun; also PRANK (sounds like mav's department on both counts! ) Also n. the stringy axis and white fibrous membrane of a citrus fruit, but Anu had a Daily Word for this last spring I liked much better...gotta look it up though, unless someone beats me to it. All citations from Websters
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mine (belonging to me) mine (gold, silver, coal etc.)
fine (penalty) fine (good)
pine (tree) pine (for the fjords)
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PRANK (sounds like mav's department on both counts!Being a maverick, I shall take this as an invitation to comment... on another thing entirely! Kent Rag or ragstone describes a characteristic dense limestone found in the area of the lower Downlands, of a soft grey mellowed with glints of many sandstone colours.
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>we are looking for a set of words with completely distinct meanings
actually, I think we are looking for a set of words with completely distinct *origins. as today is a day off for me, I will take the opportunity to wax pedantic on this subject. I took helen's challenge to apply to lexical units that are spelled the same but have different meanings and, by implication, different etymologies. I believe helen's followup posts contain words which exhibit these characteristics, as do Bingley's. words which have multiple senses (such as set) don't meet this test and are interesting for different reasons. helen (please correct me if I misstate your case, of troy) has asked for words that, probably through happenstance, have been canonized by Johnson and Webster et al with equivalent symbol strings.
sanction, for instance, doesn't make the grade; its multiple (and opposing!) meanings come from a single source. the same goes for rule.
the three meanings of cricket, on the other hand, seem to stem from three unique origins, although the ultimate origin of the name for the game is uncertain (according to OED).
root has only two variants, each with a noun and verb form.
in the case of plant roots, the verb came later. in the case of to root with the snout, a not too useful noun followed -- the old wroot spelling was influenced by the other root, and the coincidental dirt factor.
nothing is simple.
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root has only two variants...plant roots...to root with the snout
And the rooting that wombats (the two legged variety*) indulge in is related to rooting with the snout?
*That which they do after they eat and before they leave
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re: wombats, foma & granfaloons
>related to rooting with the snout?
just so.
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yes, thank you twuwm-- Wow got it right (which is why i followed up and showed two root words for foil and thanks wow, that was a new one for me!)
Bear is an other..
gnome too..
one is a garden gnome.. a troll like creature..gnomus
but a gnome as in a maxim, comes from a similar looking root, but goes to the greek gnome-- for knowlegde...
sometimes very different meanings arise from the same root.. (cosmetics (make up)and cosmos (universe)-- and the connection is only clear when you look at the root.. (kosmos- to neaten, to be orderly..)we have looked at roots, and their families of words..Gen comes to mind.(genisis, aboriginal..etc.,)
homonyms.. are interesting too.. some times they are extended meanings of the root..
(rule is a good example.. all those different meanings are from one root word!)
but sometimes.. they are different root words that have come to be spelled and pronounced the same--and still kept their old meanings.
Cleave is the only example i know of totally opposite meanings.. but CASE might surprise you.. a legal case and brief case are two different cases!
one word goes back to chance or circumstanses.. (casus-to fall) and that is a case as in grammer or a legal case..or a police case..
the other case that goes back to caspa-- chest, is a suitcase, or or briefcase, or even, by extention, a casement of a window.
the legal brief that is carried in a brief case(2), about the legal case(1)..Case is two total different words, with totally different roots!
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Dingy:
din·gy [1] (dĭn'jç)
Darkened with smoke and grime; dirty or discolored.
Shabby, drab, or squalid.
[Possibly from Middle English dinge, dung, variant of dung. See dung.]
ding·y [2] (dĭng'ç)
adj. Slang.
Crazy; insane.
Atomica doesn't give me any etymology for this, but I'm not seeing a clear connection from dung.
Howzat?
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Wild guesses
toll ( bridge tax vs bell ringing )
limb (branch vs edge of a nebula, not sure...these might be related)
lox (liquid oxy vs salmon)
fall (autumn vs from grace?)
bat (club vs winged mammal)
page (paper or html vs temptation for a congressman)
score (music sheet vs number of points)
ground (beneath the tyrant's boot vs what underlies even a commoner's sole) i dunno. maybe these are related.
race (contest vs kind)
grave (necrophile's hangout vs serious)
list maybe? (like tilt vs an enumeration of items?)
seal (water mammal vs special mark)
troll (bait vs hermione's attacker)
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score (music sheet vs number of points)
vs an amount more than nineteen but less than twenty-one
vs scratch or make a mark in, as with a pane of glass to be broken
(We're starting to mix nouns and verbs now - did we disallow that?)
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actually, score starts out meaning scratch or mark, moves on to tally (scoring a game,) and then from there to meaning a count of twenty and by another path, a musical score (a tally of all the notes as it were!)
the meaning of score has meandered.. but one word, one root.. all you have to do is check out a dictionary.
even a simple M-W 10th has two entries for case, with some brief history, and one entry for score.. and progressing meanings..
this is really a simple game.. and you can check things out for your self..
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Toll is good, and so is limb, but Fall-- as in downward motion, is what leaves do in autumn, so its no good,
on the other hand, if you checked it out, you would have found grave, (serious) grave (hole in the ground/burial spot) and grave (to rub with corse sand, and change the surface, which leads to engrave-- a third word.)
Each of these word have differnt roots.
1-gravis-- heavy (serious)
2-graef-- to dig out
3-grafe-- sand (to rub with)
but i didn't chech them all out.
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From Saturday's Merriam Webster Word of the Day:
defile \dih-FYLE or DEE-fyle\ (verb)
: to march off in a line
Example sentence:
The king nodded with approval as his soldiers defiled past
him.
Did you know?
You probably know the "defile" that is a verb meaning "to
make unclean or impure," but did you also know that today's
word is a verb that is entirely unrelated to the more familiar
"defile"? The "defile" that means "contaminate" dates to the
14th century and is derived from the Old French verb "defouler,"
meaning "to trample on, mistreat." Today's featured word, on the
other hand, arrived in English in the early 18th century. It's
also from French, but it's derived from the verb "defiler,"
formed by combining "de-" with "filer" ("to move in a column").
"Defiler" is also the source of the English noun "defile," which
means "a narrow passage or gorge."
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Faldage, is that meaning connected to "file", as in "Would you please put this paper in the file?"
Asking as a serious question, and sedulously avoiding the temptation to say, "Put this in de-file, please."
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> root has only two variants, each with a noun and verb form
I'm puzzled.
(1) So when is a variant a variant? If a word has four common forms/usages, why are there not four variants?
(2) Granted the Antipodean "root" (sexual intercourse for those that don't know) may fall into the category of slang - but what about the other three, viz:
- (noun) feeding mechanism and/or structural component of a plant
- (verb) to dig
- (verb) support a team or a cause. My dictionary says this comes from rout - which would make it different to the structural implications of the first example I've given.
????????????
stales
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
when is a variant a variant?
For purposes of this thread when the two words have completely separate histories and only happen to be spelled the same in MnE.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The Word of the Day for February 21 is:
demean \dih-MEEN\ (verb)
: to conduct or behave (oneself) usually in a proper manner
Example sentence:
"It shall be my earnest endeavour to demean myself with
grateful respect towards her Ladyship." (Jane Austen, _Pride
and Prejudice_)
Did you know?
There are two words spelled "demean" in English. The more
familiar "demean" -- "to lower in character, status, or
reputation" -- comes straight from "mean," the adjective that
means "spiteful." Today's featured word, on the other hand,
comes from the Middle French verb "demener" ("to conduct"),
which in turn comes from Latin "minare," meaning "to drive."
This verb has been with us since the 14th century and is
generally used in contexts specifying a type of behavior: "he
demeaned himself in a most unfriendly manner"; "she demeaned
herself as befitting her station in life"; "they knew not how
to demean themselves in the king's presence." As you may have
already guessed, the noun "demeanor," meaning "behavior,"
comes from this "demean."
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