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#4924 - 08/04/00 03:25 AM Re: stupid
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Unfortunately "stupid" is a popular term amongst children here with no concept of any deeper meaning. I remember one of my friend's children using the word and his father called out "Don't you ever dare call me that word again!" - he was a farmer (and probably what is known as a "late developer") he had unhappy memories of school-teachers who had kept him in the "stupid" group. The word was banned in our house too, thereafter. The children were young at the time - we said "silly", which is what they really meant, was much better.

I was often called an "idiot" by my mother - Rubrick will know the proper Irish pronunciation - "eejot". The word meant different things depending on how it was said - fortunately, usually with a smile whilst laughing at my latest "antics".

I was called a "Dundork loafer" (0 matches when googled) if I was sloping around the house or a "Belfast fishwoman" if making too much noise. I'm also not proud of my aunt's favourite term "ten ton Tessie"! I think it was normal to attatch names to people in the way that modern child development research teaches us to address the behaviour not the person - "That's a silly thing to do" not "You are silly".

Words like "moron" and "mongol" and "spastic" sound much more medical, so I suspect that stupid largely escaped into ordinary language a long time ago. I think the good thing about PC terminology is that it unlikely to hear one child shout to another "You're a person with Cerebral palsy" in the same way that "you spas" was common in the playground when I was growing up.

.... Amazing that we've survived into (arguably) reasonable adults at all, isn't it!


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#4925 - 08/04/00 09:19 AM Re: stupid
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Jo, since this is a thread about children, I'll continue the topic. Why on earth is it that children so often feel the need to be cruel to one another? Is it because they need to show some form of power, since they have no power over adults? I hope your children don't get upset if they are teased about being in a Scottish school.

I'll tell you, I'm beginning to think that I must be even luckier than I thought, reading some of the things you were called as a child, and recalling children of friends calling their siblings ugly names. That almost never happened among my friends and family. (It did with my schoolmates, but not all of them were friends I played with.) Someone recently wrote to me that she wasn't raised to be encouraging, and--this goes to show my naivete/"stupid-ness", I guess--I was very surprised. For all of my life, this is simply the way things were: no more thought was given to it than to breathing. Playing neighborhood ball games, we'd all be calling, "Nice throw", "good try", and so on. All of us kids did it, and all the important adults in my life did it. The adults were not only encouraging to us children, I got to witness their example of being encouraging to one another. And I am now more grateful than ever to them, because I have never really considered that I might be an entirely different person if not for them being the way they were.

My children have NEVER been allowed to call anyone an ugly name, especially not each other. They have known from their earliest ability to understand that I consider this hurtful. So far, I can say that they seem to be growing up into reasonable beings (not quite adults yet). It is simply beyond my comprehension to think of being deliberately cruel.

And yet, your history may be a perfect example of a point made in Political Correctness: those terms were used with no thought whatsoever to the possible effects on their recipients. And now, the mind of the public has begun the change to realization that these ought to be dispensed with.


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#4926 - 08/04/00 10:42 AM Re: orphan
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
>So what's the PC word preference for "stupid" one that's not demeaning to other groups but one that is forceful and shows disgust?

fortunately(?), there is no dearth of words for the concept; here's a selection from Merriam-Webster:

SIMPLE, FOOLISH, SILLY, FATUOUS, ASININE mean actually or apparently deficient in intelligence. SIMPLE implies a degree of intelligence inadequate to cope with anything complex or involving mental effort <considered people simple who had trouble with computers>. FOOLISH implies the character of being or seeming unable to use judgment, discretion, or good sense <foolish stunts>. SILLY suggests failure to act as a rational being especially by ridiculous behavior <the silly antics of revelers>. FATUOUS implies foolishness, inanity, and disregard of reality <fatuous conspiracy theories>. ASININE suggests utter and contemptible failure to use normal rationality or perception <an asinine plot>.

or, one could resort to this infamous internet rant:

"Sir you are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithypahallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning, zoophyte."

or, we could just invent some tsupid new word...


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#4927 - 08/04/00 11:01 AM Re: orphan
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
>Is the orphan of "orphan drug" related to the parentless definition of orphan? I can stretch the two definitions together, but I am interested in a more definitive answer.

I seem to be impaled on the horns of a virtual prisoner's dilemna: should I cooperate by posting my opinion as a "service" to Brandon, or should I answer with a flippant YCLIU? (there was the third option of remaining silent in hopes that an expert in pharmacology law, or even a legislator, would eventually wander along and post a definitive reply; but I've blown that one).

anyway, my theory is that orphan drugs are so-named because of the neglect and abandonment they received due to perceived unprofitability. that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

-tsupid



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#4928 - 08/04/00 06:09 PM Re: orphan
michaelo Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 31
Loc: Long Beach, CA, USA
I guess I'll stick with "stupid" as a forceful universal term for venting aloud in the vernacular.

Also, with a gender change, I would wear the "Belfast fishwoman" badge with glee and honor.

However, I will definitely think about using the infamous internet rant jamboree of words in my next letter to the editor.

cheers,

michaelo




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#4929 - 08/04/00 08:23 PM Re: orphan
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Well, where to start, Tsuwm?
A rant first, I think: I hope you do not again put your apellation as 'tsu'-pid. It affronts and offends me, and besides it is an untruth. Tsu-nami was a borderline joke--this is not in the least bit funny. Thank you.

>>should I cooperate by posting my opinion as a "service" to Brandon, or should I answer with a flippant YCLIU? You are certainly allowed to do whichever one you wish, my dear. Methinks you have been doing some internalizing. Every person has the choice of whether to change or not, according to information received. I'll give you an A for effort, at the very least.

>>impaled on the horns of a virtual prisoner's dilemna Gee, if you had read about that question in a book, would you now be in a printed-matter prisoner's dilemma?



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#4930 - 08/05/00 11:11 AM Re: Belfast Fishwoman
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>Also, with a gender change, I would wear the "Belfast fishwoman" badge with glee and honor.

As (I hope) I said. the term was never used in anger. I can't really remember if it was a Belfast fishwoman or a Belfast fisherwoman. I have half a mind (no comments, thank you) to go to Belfast and seek one out. I'd love to meet one, if such a person still exists. I doubt my mother had ever seen one either. More than likely it was a phrase passed on from her mother who grew up in Ireland.

Rather than being upset by a Dundork loafer, it always made me wonder what one looked like.

I think a tour of Ireland must be on my holiday wish list. if only to uncover the words I heard as a child.


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#4931 - 08/05/00 02:06 PM Re: Belfast Fishwoman
william Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 200
jo,

i think this is wonderful.
may you be blessed by belfast fisherwomen all your life!

it's not easy to turn the words of our childhood around (even if not used in anger) and reclaim them, whatever their real meaning might be.
in any case, belfast fisherwomen must be a breed that sees truth even through the mist, and one that casts nets blithely and with good fortune into a dark sea.



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#4932 - 08/05/00 05:45 PM Re: Belfast Fishwoman
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>in any case, belfast fisherwomen must be a breed that sees truth even through the mist, and one that casts nets blithely and with good fortune into a dark seaWilliam

William, where I seek them, there shall I find you. How kind are your thoughts!


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#4933 - 08/06/00 12:00 PM Re: orphan
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
>So what's the PC word preference for "stupid" one that's not demeaning to other groups but one that is forceful and shows disgust?

Cerebrally challenged?

Or, as I found in biography of Teddy Roosevelt I read a few weeks ago: "He never opens his mouth but he subtracts from the sum of human knowledge."

_________________________
TEd

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