|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Well, in two days us US folk celebrate our annual Thanksgiving, and the story of the Pilgrims and the Mayflower leads us to the fact that our continent was first populated in majority by a contingent called "Strangers." The Puritans (the Pilgrims) fled Europe, as we all know, to escape religious persecution, and they took with them a number of other folks. To differentiate the two groups the Puritans dubbed themselves as "Saints" and the non-Puritans as "Strangers." There were 44 "Saints" and 66 "Strangers" who embarked from the Mayflower at olde Plimouth. So, indeed, our continent, in the European sense, was first founded and settled by "Strangers." So you see, our entry-level nomenclature harbors much dignity after all!  (emergency edit: excluding the Spanish, of course!) Happy Thanksgiving to all our USn's!...and to all elsewhere who likewise observe, albeit at other times!Here's the url for the full "Stranger" story and other early Plimouth tidbits: http://www.holidays.net/thanksgiving/pilgrims.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WO'N: please forgive a small quibble, but it is not entirely accurate to say the Pilgrims left Europe to escape religious persecution. If I remember correctly they has been settled in Holland for about twelve years with no persecution.The thing they were most upset about is that they felt in danger of losing their identity and being completely assimilated by the Dutch. I was surprised on a visit to Plimoth Plantation a few years ago to see a map of how widely distributed over the map of England the homes of the Mayflower passengers were.
Could it be that the Saints were the group from Holland, and the Strangers were the ones who had not gone to Holland?
PS: I found a site which says the above is correct.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
We've had several discussions on this board about calendars and when certain changes were made.
Was the 1620 calendar identical to ours?
Curious,
WordmouthRock
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
The calendar change came over a hundred years later. Why do you ask?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
wwh, you do know that I rarely know what time it is...and days are usually way beyond my ken.
However, I did the math for the 65 days of the voyage based on the site Whitman posted, and it came out perfectly correct (from Sept. 6th to Nov. 10th).
I was just curious about the fact that that calculation works out perfectly with our current calendar, and wondered whether an adjustment had been made.
The long explanations here on this board usually make me yawn long before I've finished them--being chronologically challenged myself--but this, even I can understand.
Just curious,
Wordwatch
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WW: Since both of WO'N's dates were recorded on the same calendar, the later change would be irrelevant. The people who got hurt were the people in the year of the change, and the discrepancy(about fifteen days?) is a nuisance for genealogists.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Your "quibble" is correct, Dr. Bill. And, also, I was wondering...if our newcomers are "Strangers," does that make all the other boardmembers "Saints?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I have heard it said that it was not so much that the Pilgrim Fathers were being persecuted as that they were not being allowed to persecute others. Could one of our historians comment on what persecution they were suffering?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/gc/gc16.htmlTry this, Bingley, - it is a pretty succinct run down of what happened, I believe. (I've had to crib from elsewhere, using the historians hallowed excuse that "it is not my period" !!! )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
As a 'newbie-stranger' (in the lexicon of this little world, I guess I'm comfortable enough with that label for now), I am thankful today to whitman o'neill for helping me figure out just quite what is happening in here. Though I doubt the pilgrims were the first true strangers on planet earth (surely that started with the wanderings of far more ancient hominids). And I don't type fast enough to get out of this category anytime soon, but I don't feel strange in here with this crowd at all. I'm open to any advice you veterans have for 'stangers' who are trying to navigate this site.
I'm enjoying reading all of you....(intelligent talk) So then, I am also thankful to Anu
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Welcome to the board, magimaria!  Glad my post helped to nudge you out into the open! Sounds like you're a sure fit here! And don't let that "Stranger-Carpal Tunnel" nomenclature phase ya!...they're just software designations according to the number of posts, is all. And if you have any questions about the workings of the board please feel free to PM me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear magimaria: I am grateful to see your post. We need all the talent we can get.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
Dear wwh, (and all others)
Don't set the bar too high for me; I'm just a novice in this format. But I have plenty to say, if and when I can figure this out. I have been looking for all of you (!) for awhile, as I am internet/technology challenged. My mind has nearly atrophied after 26 years of hard work and family life; I need some ideas!...
But I knew when I found Anu a few months back, that I had stumbled upon the right place (oh NPR is fine, but who has the time to listen to the radio, much less get on the telephone?)
I will confess to being a bit uncivilized...certainly undereducated where this crowd goes. But timid, I am not! And if I disappear, you'll know I am just lost somewhere in here trying to find my way back! Anyway,I have stuffing to prepare and pies to bake, but I'll be watching all of you....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear magimaria: Limbo if you choose.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
Dear wwh,
What in the &@$#, I mean, world, does that mean?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
There was a challenge to see who could most skillfully go under a low bar. It was called "limbo". I'll go search for it. Here is URL: http://www.guides.org.uk/members/brownies/limbo.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
wwh,
No need to search. I was actually quite good at that game in my youth. But I'm like a fish out of water here. I thought it might mean leaving one's computer on (while I went domestic, baking my sweet potato pies) and only 'looking in' without interacting (being in limbo, then....) See what I mean about being a bit wild (uncivilized). My mind will just take off on its own....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Bingley, as W'ON noted, the Pilgrims were 'Puritans' - i.e., a group originally within the C. of E. which favored a more Presbyterian style of Church government, worship style, etc.
From the time of the C. of E. being wrenched away from Rome by Henry VIII, there were constant struggles among various parties as to how far reformation should go. When Henry died, Thomas Cranmer, his archbishop of Canterbury, set about really reforming (very little was allowed by Henry). His first Prayer Book of King Edward VI of 1548, one of the great masterpieces of English, was fairly conservative. Before long the influence of continental reformers, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli etc. spread to England and a number of parties demanded further reform. To try to keep the peace, Cranmer produced in 1552 the second Prayer Book of Edward VI, which reduced the 'popish' features. Even this did not satisfy the most radical reformers, who were becoming known as the Puritans, who wanted a Presbyterian form of church.
The debate was abruptly and nastily ended by the untimely death of Edward VI and the accession of his sister Mary, known to history as Bloody Mary. She had remained Catholic and immediately restored the Roman religion and practice and banned Protestant worship on pain of burning at the stake. She was succeeded after, I think, 8 years by her sister Elizabeth.
Elizabeth I was not, or did not think herself to be, entirely secure on the throne, so she trod warily in matters of religion, doing no more than to switch the country back to Protestantism and the 2nd Prayer Book, but the Puritans continued making a nuisance of themselves, so finally a new edition of the P.B. was issued, making only minor changes. The Puritans kept on pressing for radical reform.
In 1600, Richard Hooker, a C of E priest, published The Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity, another great landmark of English literature as well as a great legal work. This was a defense of the traditional polity and organization of the C of E against the Puritans who had never stopped agitating. It was about this time that many of them decided that they couldn't live under this 'popish' church which refused to cave in to their demands, so they left for Holland, later for America. More fools they. Had they stayed in England and lived long enough, they would have seen the final triumph of the Presbyterian party, when they succeeded in dismantling the C of E under Cromwell.
Anyway, their 'persecution' consisted in being unable to persuade any king or queen or synod or anyone else to re-make the C of E into a Presbyterian system, or to allow nonconformist congregations to enjoy the same status as the established church. Needless to say, when they got to America and were in charge of things, they proceeded to persecute all dissenters from their system. Baptists and Quakers met with much worse fates in New England than Presbyterians had ever suffered in Old England.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
Strangers...
(west coast time)
Could anything be stranger today than the bird my husband just washed?I opted for the free range, natural one, and as my family gathering will be small today, I selected a small turkey for the six of us. Lo and behold, while my 'free-ranger' was surely happy during his short little life, I come to realize the obvious! This bird is all legs (the dreaded dark meat)! Oh, no! No chemically plumped, genetically engineered white breast meat for my family this year!
It looks so scrawny in the breast I am afraid that I might not even get one good slice of white meat. I actually thought about rushing out to the store and buying another, but really, it's the dressing and the mashed potatoes that most of us want (not to mention the sweet potato pies, and those are safe). So, life is stranger than fiction, this bird is stranger than any I have seen in my 20+ years of cooking my own feast, and I am a stranger among you...but not for long!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
As my wife's favorite grandfather said, "You can't put a fork in the gravy."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77 |
Well, that's hardly the reassurance I was hoping for from this group! But, I'm used to forging ahead on my own. I'll file away those words of wisdom, anyway.
Now I'm on to the side dishes. Having just peeled the potatoes, and finding the skins (my favorite! If my elderly motherdidn't insist, I would leave them on) to resemble little hash browns, I'm trying something new and frying them (the skin peelings)up in butter and sauteed onions for a little snack!
And that poor little turkey is shrinking as we speak (write?)!
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,361
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
647
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
