|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Today's the first (onya bingley) Tuesday in November. The day that the race that stops a nation (The Melbourne Cup) is run.
Like millions of other Aussies, today's the only day of the year that stales and his family put money on the outcome of a horse race. And, all across the nation, people are buying tickets in a sweepstake at their place of work.
I presume that the term sweepstake is in global use but just in case, it refers to a kind of lottery in which you contribute a small fee (generally $2 or $5 per ticket) to receive a horse's name drawn out of a hat. There are as many tickets as there are horses in the race and, if yours is scratched before the race, too bad. There's generally 4 prizes, first, second and third as well as a "donkey prize" of your money back for the last place getter.
Anyway - can anybody tell about the term "sweepstake" - origins, geographic usage etc.
stales
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
Can't say that I know much about the origins of sweepstakes, but what you are describing here sounds like what we Michiganians call an office pool. I have never personally participated in an office pool, but I'm sure that some other 'Merkin can elucidate better than I on this subject. Yoohoo! Office poolers! Come out come out where ever you are!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
More information than I could ever have hoped for! Don't worry, I don't believe a word of it!!
stales
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Today is the first Tuesday in November, so has the race been moved?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Have a cuppa', sweetie. That's what Stales said!
Today's the first (onya bingley) Tuesday in November. The day that the race that stops a nation (The Melbourne Cup) is run.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
And this is probably the first Melbourne Cup in twenty years for which I haven't had a ticket in a sweepstake. Like stales, our household doesn't typically bet. But a sweepstake isn't betting - it's pure and utter chance!  Almost makes me feel homesick, stales. On yer, mate!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Office pools exist here as well. Usually for sports events. The only thing I can recall is buying Grey Cup tickets (these are the Canadian football finals). They each have a random score printed on them (Something along the lines of East 30 West 17, for example) and if your ticket is right you win money. Well, theoretically. I've never actually won anything that way. There are also hockey pools. These involved choosing a team of players...I have NO IDEA how they work. Can anyone elucidate?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
this reminds me, more than anything, of those rare times when the (quasi)national lottery gets upwards of 100 gazillion dollars (american) and *everyone* buys a ticket, even those who never bet (hi CK), and folks at the office pool (a different sort of office pool) their moneys to buy blocks of tickets. and then someone in Kahootie, WI wins and everyone else says "man, that could have been me!". but this isn't a special day, but a random one. which seems appropriate somehow.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
Ahem, for some of us, when it comes to gambling, never means, never, not ever, under no circumstances whatsoever. oh, I agree absotively, max. but I gave in one time, under the circumstances outlined above, just so I could tell everyone the next time that I had learned my lesson! I also have to admit to the occasional poker game, but (for me) that's not a game of chance. [  to W. C. Fields]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
yes, Max has a point. some people don't gamble for religious reasons and many other reasons. Others like me, don't buy lottery tickets even when the jackpot is to 15 or 20 million.. because we are too cheap.
what is the saying? Lottery are special tax for those who are to stupid to learn math? or something of that sort...
but lets get back to --whence sweepstake? and while we at it, why are some races steeplechases, (i know they are demanding overland races with lots of jumps, and puddles, and all sort of other interesting obsticles.. but why a steeplechase?) and the winnings? why are the winning a jackpot ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Sweepstake means just that. The winner sweeps (takes) the entire stake. I think the word is probably of Irish provenance, but I don't know why I think that. Probably wrong!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I figured that it translated to all the stakes being "swept". This implied to me however a "winner take all" outcome which doesn't seem to be the practice in reality. So whence the practice of also paying 2nd, 3rd and last place? Been a tradition as long as I can remember.
Thanks for the comments all - been fun so far on this thread.
stales
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Well stales, did you win? Has the stales household had to become tax exiles?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Number 2 son (10yo) cleaned up. He got second place with "Give The Slip" (a Saudi nag) in the $2.50 sweep, picked up $18. No word on whether he intends to compensate his folks for their $2.50 outlay on his behalf!!
stales
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
can anybody tell about the term "sweepstake" - origins, geographic usage etc.
It is generally conceded that the original sense was “winner take all,” that is, that the person winning the race or game “swept” all the “stakes” into his own pocket. Later the winnings did not accrue entirely to a single winner, ... and still later the term became applied to the event occasioning the wagering ... rather than to the disposition of the spoils. Curiously, though, Sweepstake (also spelled Swepestake) is recorded as used as a ship’s name at least a hundred years earlier than its first recorded use in the gambling sense, but without any sound clue as to the reason for its choice as a nautical term.
-- from Horsefeathers & Other Curious Words, Charles Funk
Accord, Origins A Short Etymological Dictionary of Modern English , Eric Partridge, and Etymological Dictionary, W W Skeat, who also notes: sweep-stake, the same as swoop-stake, sweeping off all the stakes at once, Hamlet, iv. 5. 142, whence sweep-stakes, sb., the whole money staked at a horse-race that can be won or swept up at once.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
these so-called geniuses have all this great information on hand and then they totally miss the boat (you should pardon the expression). take a look at their source material:
†1. One who ‘sweeps’, or takes the whole of, the stakes in a game, etc.; usually fig. one who takes or appropriates everything; from the 15th to the 17th cent. commonly used as a ship's name.
a 1495 Naval Acc. Hen. VII (1896) 159 The Kinges Bark called the Swepestake. 1520 in Lett. & Papers Hen. VIII, III. ii. 1541 To John Hopton, wages of the Swepestake row~barge, and for rigging other ships, 100 l. 1527 Will of J. Piper (Somerset Ho.), My shipp called the Mary Swepestake. 1540 Palsgr. Acolastus biv, Pantolabus signifieth omnia capiens, one that is a swepestake and all is fysshe that commeth to the nette with hym. 1545 in 12th Rep. Hist. MSS. Comm. App. vii. 8 The second rancke of the vaunt~ward:—The greate gallye. The Swepstacke. 1593 G. Harvey Pierce's Super. Wks. (Grosart) II. 111 He that will exploit wonderments, and karrie all before him, like a sweepe-stake. 1593 in J. Morris Troubles Cath. Forefathers (1877) 163 The gleaners, as sweepstakes, who raked up without scruple all that whereof the other made some conscience. 1595 Roxb. Ball. (1889) VI. 409 The George-Aloe and the Sweep-stake too. 1632 Brome Novella ii. ii, Shee will runne on the faster.+ She will prove the only Sweep-stake In all the city. 1687 Miege Gt. Fr. Dict., Sweep-stake, He that gets all the Stakes, Celui (ou Celle) qui tire l'Enjeu.
so, one asks oneself: how did we get from a ship's name to winner take all? here's my theory (and this theory is mine, I own it and just made it up):
Pantolabus signifieth omnia capiens, one that is a swepestake and all is fysshe that commeth to the nette with hym.
omnia capiens means roughly to take everything... there is another way to divide this word sweep|stake and that is sweeps|take... and here I submit the 'take' stands for the 'catch' -- sweeps the catch into the hold. well, there it is. that's my theory, and it's mine.
-anne elke
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
tsuwm,
Would that be Miss Anne Elke?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
That said, I love the sport of kings, and was extremely annoyed at missing the Melbourne Cup on Tuesday.Well, you probably need better sights on your rifle. The cup is big enough, in all conscience. Just a thought, Max ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
tsuwm:
It is perhaps not so obvious that sweeps are also oars, which on a galley are stacked one deck above the other. Swepstacke???
Another SWAG: Oars have to pivot on something to be truly effective. That something could well be a stake driven into the gunwale with a hole or fork for the oar to go through.
TEd
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
teD, interesting conjecture -- but not a very interesting concept to apply as a name for one's vessel.
-anne
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,372
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
220
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
