Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#45451 10/20/01 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
In the November 2001 issue of Discover,p. 56, I encountered the following (partial) sentence:

........munching sushi from his superefficient freezer (typical of his über-frugal tendencies,
he has microwaved it so briefly that the California rolls are still partially frozen).


At first I didn't like it, but on re-reading it decided I did like it. There is a bit of rhyme between "superefficient" and "über", and "über-frugal" sounds like a Gernan word. Please comment.


#45452 10/21/01 12:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
P
veteran
Offline
veteran
P
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
typical of his über-frugal tendencies
I don't parlez-vous German, wwh, but "uber" means "over". In this sense, I suppose it means "excessively". It appears "uber" could be combined with any word describing a trait (eg. uber-cautious) and it would work. How did "uber" become a consort of english nouns? I don't know of any other words that play this role. We have imported a lot of foreign words into the language (eg. sang froid) and we use them as english words but they stand alone. And how do we explain "Franglais"? It can't be a French word because only the english speak "Franglais" ... some better than others. Art Buchwald was a comedic master of "Franglais" who translated "Miles Standish" as "Kilometre Deboutish".


#45453 10/21/01 09:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409

#45454 10/21/01 10:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
R
member
Offline
member
R
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
And how do we explain "Franglais"? It can't be a French word because only the english speak "Franglais" .
Franglais is a different kettle of fish because it was born by having the two languages side by side. I suspect you have the same sort of thing in the various parts of Europe where the borders have moved back and forth every few years.

Franglais is spoken by French people and hence the word being French. Example, I asked one of my brothers-in-law how you would say four-wheel drive in French:
Answer:
1. Le four by four.
2. Le quatre par quatre.
3. La propulsion à quatre roues motrices.

In many cases the English is used because it is shorter and easier so say. One of the jobs of the Office de la langue français is stamp out these anglicisms.

In Montréal especially, you will hear Englench(??) because French is the dominant language. When going to the corner store I would say, "I'm going to the dépanneur (or the dep)."

Finally, there is a third case that should not be lumped in with the others: that of someone learning a second language. When speaking French, if I don't know the French word for something, I just insert the English word (with a French accent), hope for the best, and continue on.


#45455 10/21/01 12:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
N
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
N
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
It presumably derives from Nietzsche's Übermensch, which in English became known as Superman. (Was Shaw the first to use Superman in English, or were there translations of Nietzsche before him?) Freud then coined the term über-ich, Englished as super-ego.

The use of über in English seems to me to be a geeky or subculture thing: someone might be described as an über-geek or indeed an über-babe. (Members of one site I use include Uberfetus and Ubermeme.)


#45456 10/21/01 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
I should have pointed out that the article was about a millionaire scientist who practiced conspicuous underconsumption. The interviewer coined the word "über-frugal" as a cute way of avoiding a word that the millionaire might have found insulting.


#45457 10/21/01 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
J
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
Freud then coined the term über-ich, Englished as super-ego.

So if ego comes from ich-o (for those of y'all who don't know German, ch sounds kinda like a soft k in some areas) where does Id come from?


#45458 10/21/01 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
"ego" is Latin for "I". "id" is Latin for "it".


#45459 10/21/01 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
P
veteran
Offline
veteran
P
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
The interviewer coined the word "über-frugal" as a cute way of avoiding a word that the millionaire might have found insulting.
Don't kill the goose that is laying the golden ratings, sorta thing, huh? "Interviewers" and Talk Show Hosts obviously walk a fine line here. The British talk show host, David Frost, was often accused of being unctuous. You can never slather it on too thick for a big ego, of course, but it often gives the audience indigestion. "uber-frugal" (in place of "miserly") is the opposite side of the same counterfeit coin, wouldn't you say, wwh? The judicious use of a foreign word allows a speaker to gloss his defamation off with a veneer of cordiality even reverence, especially if it is accompanied by a smile or other gesture of obsequious regard. Everyone's the happier for it. The defamed ego will never know it has been punctured, some in the audience may be curious enough to investigate the bon mot after the fact in which case they will enjoy a sort of post-prandial chuckle, and the interviewer preserves his reputation as an unctuous hypocrite, all for the betterment of the Neilsen ratings.



#45460 10/21/01 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear plutarch: It is bad form to bite the hand that feeds one. In the article the millionaire's idiosyncracies are reported to give a human touch both to his wealth and his scientific standing. I think coining a word was desirable. I'd like to see some alternative coinages.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,351
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (A C Bowden), 642 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,549
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,918
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5