|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Max: I got out the October Discover and looked at the article again. A few astronomers interested in comet orbits think a group of them may have been caused to head for us by an object in the Oort cloud five times the size of Jupiter 2 trillion miles away that orbits Sun once in five million years. Another NASA telescope to be launched next July may find it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
A planet 5 times bigger than Jupiter would really be something to see, by Jove!
Gee, just like the sun!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Dear Max - never have I seen "gist" verbed, much less made transitive.
Is this common usage among Zildians, or just among the uniquely gifted?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"Gee, just like the sun!" This object, though huge is not hot enough to emit any light, and is so far away from any source of light that it is exceedingly dim. And it is moving so very slowly that photographs at six month intervals to use parallax to pick it out by its shift in position so far have not found it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>Maverick astronomers ...
He gets around doesn't he?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Thanks Max! Although I recognize that many of us are not disposed to being noun-verbers (nouns-verber?), I do like the result of verbificating "gist". I also admire the candor of the architectifiers of the software you describe.
Is there another word out there that would serve in the place of the verbed "gist"?
p.s. - in writing this post, my fingers insisted on typying "noun-berber" twice - which brought to mind images of the pack of us, mounted on our dromedaries, lugging our nouns 'cross the desert wastes, off to trade with the verb-Tuaregs at Conjunction Junction
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Is there another word out there that would serve in the place of the verbed "gist"?
synopsize? summarize?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
never have I seen "gist" verbed, much less made transitive.
If you're going to verb it I don't see how you can help but make it transitive.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"Is there another word out there that would serve in the place of the verbed "gist"?
synopsize? summarize?"
Abridge, abstract, and a dandy word I haven't heard for a long time "précis".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
In this case we have both nouned and verbed an adjective, but we done it out of a furrn language so it's OK.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
and a dandy word I haven't heard for a long time "précis".
is "précis" a verb, or or is it a noun only?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Précis has been verbed *and nouned.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Précis-ely.
Has left ze buildeeng.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Max, I wasn't particularly impressed with the article. There really nothing new there. The essay at http://geobeck.tripod.com/frontier/planet.htmgives a much more thorough and much more amusing account of the science involved, plus other interesting matters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
When it's finally spotted, I bet it's oblong and dead black ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Keiva: Whatever your objections to the Discover story, the URL you gave is to an article by Isaac Azimov which makes no mention of the Oort cloud.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Incomplete. Knowledge from other Asimov:
A further planet was hypothesized as an explanation for the irregularity in Uranus's orbit. Searching for that planet, Neptune was discovered.
A further planet was hypothesized as an explanation for the irregularity in Neptune's orbit. Searching for that planet, Pluto was discovered in the 1930's.
However, satellite probes (in the 1970's, I think) revealed that Pluto is quite small -- too small to account for the Neptune irregularities. Ever since then, it's been hypothesized that there's something else, further out. The astronomer featured in Dicover is not, in this, working on anything new and novel. Nor is he, by his own admission, anywhere near a breakthorough.
My understanding (very vague) is if that something were as far out as the Oort cloud, it would have to be extremely masssive to account for the Neptune irregularities. And that raises (to me) the further question: if it's that big, how come its gravity hasn't been great enough that the its core heat, generated by gravitational collapse, triggered nuclear fusion -- so that the body would be become a star (and thus visible), rather than a planet?
Seem unlikely to me. My conclusion is that the guy featured in the Discover article is a squirrel. Reading between the lines of the comments of other astronomers quoted in that aritcle, it appears that they share my conclusion. I notice that the featured astronomer is working on this solely "on the side"; no one's interested enough to be funding him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
When it's finally spotted, I bet it's oblong and dead black ...
Well, this IS 2001, after all...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
unless I miss my guess, it's been some while since ol' Isaac A. has written on this subject.
[and isn't Franco still dead too?]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Max, my understanding (again, per Asimov) is that it's believed that Jupiter itself is just about at the brink of the size above which nuclear fusion would be triggered. (There is rough evidence than Jupiter itself is a bit hotter than such an object would be if non-nuclear, thus suggesting a small amount of nuclear activity at the planet's core). And the Discover article hypothesizes an object roughly 10 times as massive as Jupiter. Raising the question: if so, why no nuclear ignition? (I ask that as a layman, of course.)
As to your point about any known planets orbiting other stars, my answer is very straightforward: I don't know. Let's see if either of us can find anything with a little LIU, as to their size and how their existence was seen or inferred.
tsuwm, granted that Asimov is dead; my point is that the article in essence provided no new science beyond what Asimov wrote some time ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
as Max's links will affirm, things have changed a bit since IA wrote on the subject. here's another link: http://www.nationalacademies.org/ssb/wsmoch1.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
tsuwm, I don't see any real changes; just the same old speculation. BTW, Max, you don't need anyone to "gist" the article; your link gives 100% of the text in the printed magazine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Max, I'm professing ignorance, not scepticism. No doubt extrasolar planets exist (the converse is, statistically, absurd), and I think I recall that some have been detected. I just don't recall anything more about those that were detected. (dumb ignorant -e)
But to make this a word-post: if "solar" is limited to our star, and not to stars generally, what do you call a planetary system around another star? Is there any term less cumbersome than "extrasolar system"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Well, you do learn something every day: I'd thought that the closest star to our solar system was Alpha Centauri, but apparently it is actually Proxima Centauri. Wordwind, two sites I checked listed the closest star to our planet as the sun, so yes, you're right (not that I doubted it).
And, a system of planets orbiting a star is a solar system.
Just not our solar system.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Neptune's rotational axis is reasonably near-horizonal: that is, it lies much closer to the plane of the planet's orbit than is the case with any other planet of our system.
Also, it uniquely rotates "in the wrong direction", when compared with the other planets.
A distinction as to Sirius -- it is the brightest star in our sky (apart from the very occasional supernova), but not the most luminous. That is, others cast off more light, but Sirius appears brightest to us because it is far closer to us than those more-luminous stars (and is far more luminous than the closer stars). In technical terms, it has the greatest magnitude but not the greatest absolute magnitude.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
another bit of astronomical trivia, this time word-related:
Which of the major bodies in the (our) solar system have names that are not taken from classical greek or roman mythology? (I say "major bodies" to exclude asteroids -- which are so numerous that we've long since abandoned classical names -- and comets. Let's take "major" to mean larger than the largest asteroid, Ceres.)
The obvious answers are "earth; moon; sun". There are at least two others.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Ariel and Oberon are both bigger than Ceres, which is 950 km or so. These two moons of Uranus, like many others orbiting that planet, came from Shakespeare.
edited later
Umbriel and Titania are also larger than Ceres. Titania comes from Titan, so that probably doesn't count. Umbriel is from Rape of the Lock, I think.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
correct. (I'd forgotten Oberon)
The pairing of Ariel and Unbriel (light and dark) is rather neat, is it not? Help me out, TEd: aren't they moons of the same planet, which were discovered and named together as a pair? (too lazy to LIU)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
I think your use of the word "gist" as an extrapolation of "Gist-it" is quite ingenious, Max. As you say, translation software can only give you the "gist" of the text in a foreign language. And, if your depth in things scientific is as shallow as mine, all you would want is the "gist" of a technical scientific report. The rest would be way over your head. So "gist it for me" is right on. A commendable addition to the language, Max.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
None of these words convey the nuance of "gist", wwh. A "gist" is not an adumbration, synopsis, abstract or precis. It is a dumbed down 'translation' of a techical article. It could be a synopsis or a precis but it is more than that. It seeks to interpret the work that is "gisted" in a manner that may not be technically accurate in order to make it comprehensible to a lay person. There is no flavor of that extended meaning in any of the alternatives proposed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
I agree, Plutarch, with practically everything you said except I might point out that a nuance, by it's nature, is speaker/listener specific. As a self-anointed lay person I interpret the "gist" of something as the "essence" of something. As well, it has been my observation that many writers of technical papers write to obfuscate by contrived jargon rather than elucidating their lack of something worthwhile to say.
And while we are on the subject; The planet Venus also has an axial retrograde rotation, and strangely, its orbit is nearly circular which leads me and the late Velikovsky (yes that late Velikovsky) to think that the planet is a newcomer to this part of the solar system. But I say, as the late President Nixon once said- No, I am not a kook.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Milum, I believe you're right about Venus. (slapping my own forehead -e)
Do I recall that that was discovered only recently, the planet's rotation having been difficult to ascertain due to its cloud cover?
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,361
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
1 members (wofahulicodoc),
618
guests, and
5
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
