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#4131 - 09/26/00 01:40 PM Re: tenses
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
>What truly makes an adjective? As example, the word "oust" is defined as a verb; however, the word can be used as an adjective (participle): "The ousted politician ..."

An adjective is a word that modifies a noun. But what you have here is a clause that has been shortened. When you read "the ousted politician" you see a Bush. NO. That's not right. Sorry. Wrong forum. When you read "the ousted politician" what you are actually seeing is a shorthand of "the politician who had been ousted". Subordinate clause, if I remember correcty.



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#4132 - 09/27/00 02:41 AM Re: adjectives
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
Yielding to the temptation to try and untwist that long-suffering thread, let me modestly mention that "participle" stems from "participere", i.e. taking part in both the world of verbs and the world of adjectives. Furthermore, an adjective can be used in an attributive sense: "The red apple fell from the tree." or in a predicative sense: "The apple is red". Now if you say: "the politician was (is) ousted", it is arbitrary to consider "ousted" a form of a verb or an adjective in predicative use: it is a participle. The attributive use of participles is more restricted: You can say: "the bike was thrown into the canal", but as for "The thrown bike.." I am not so sure..


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#4133 - 09/27/00 03:32 AM Re: adjectives
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>Yielding to the temptation to try and untwist that long-suffering thread ...

Wow! Wsieber - I've just been practising my school-girl Spanish and I come back to this piece written in your second (or is it your third?) language!


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#4134 - 09/27/00 04:40 AM Re: adjectives
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
as for "The thrown bike.." I am not so sure..

But it presumabaly can be used to differentiate - as in 'Two bicycles were found when the canal was drained, one of which had clearly been thrown into the water quite deliberately. The thrown bicycle was out in the middle of the waterway.' Or is this a different form?

And how about 'thrown pottery' as distinct from coiled, slab, and other methods?


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#4135 - 09/27/00 04:49 AM Re: adjectives
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
>And how about 'thrown pottery' as distinct from coiled, slab, and other methods?<
Thank you, maverick, for this pertinent example of a participle in attributive use, on the verge of turning into an adjective. Pottery is one of my hobbies .




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#4136 - 09/27/00 04:57 AM Re: adjectives
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
>..in your second (or is it your third?) language<
Thanks for this nice compliment. Actually, I acquired English after French, but probably practised both about to the same extent. I would not mention this if it weren't for a hot controversy raging, at present, in Switzerland, about which language should be taught first, in primary school..


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#4137 - 09/27/00 12:12 PM Re: adjectives
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
Thank you, maverick, for this pertinent example of a participle in attributive use, on the verge of turning into an adjective. Pottery is one of my hobbies

My pleasure, wsieber - one good turn deserves another.


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#4138 - 09/28/00 08:45 AM Re: adjectives
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
Other features which can be used to differentiate adjectives from participles:
most adjectives have comparative and superlative forms,
most adjectives can be modified by adverbs of degree like very or absolutely , e.g. very rich or absolutely fabulous .

There are degrees of adjectivalness: the most adjectival adjectives have all four features: predicative use, attributive use, comparative and superlative forms, modifiable by adverbs of degree. Other adjectives may only have three of the features. Once we get down to only two or one of these features, the arguments start.

Bingley
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#4139 - 09/28/00 11:35 AM Re: adjectives
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Bingley,

You know so very much! I am so impressed!


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