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#40310 - 09/04/01 12:42 PM Re:It must be Jelly
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I never hear the word "Jelly" without being reminded of Fats Waller : It must be Jelly, because Jam don't shake like that.....
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/6704/


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#40311 - 09/04/01 06:40 PM Re: Jelly is not preserves
belMarduk Offline
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Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
In English Quebec we use same words as U.S. but some differently...

Jelly is made from fruit juice and gelatin. Not a common item in Québec as the French tend to prefer jam. We do have mint jelly to put on lamb.

Jam is made from fruit but is NOT homogenous, it has a lot of fruit pulp and intact pieces of fruit. The fruit is cooked on stovetop with sugar. In Québec, jam is very thick. In most of the other Canadian provinces jam is much runnier.

Preserves is not a word that is used for jam or jelly but for anything that you "can" (mason jars). For example you might have tomato preserves from your garden of the summer before. Oddly, you can make jam from your garden fruit but you still don't call it preserves.


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#40312 - 09/05/01 03:27 AM Re: Jello
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>Whereas for Zildians, "Jello" is one of those dead giveaways that tags someone as USn.

Here too.

"Jello brand" geletin dessert sounds 'sgusting! Like the paket of cake mix a friend brought over which proudly proclaimed "With real artificial flavor".

Although we know that some people hate lengthy discussion about food. ...
Part of the growing up process (if we are lucky) is that the things we learn in our childhood are not necessarily the only answer. I can learn to live with the idea that people are not wrong when they write "aging", rather than "ageing" but food beliefs, because they relate to sensation, not thinking, are harder to change. Perhaps it is so important that we don't eat food that is poisonous, we are programmed to accept what we are told by our own culture. The window of opportunity for new tastes is relatively small. While as an adult we may learn that anchovies and olives taste better than we may have remembered as a child, the tastes of childhood (eg peanut butter and jelly) are harder to re-programme. In fact some smells, literally turn our stomach, I still can't drink gin, having come across it as a child and hated the smell.


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#40313 - 09/05/01 03:38 AM What would be the Brit term for USns jelly?
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Jam

Hence the peanut butter and jelly problem.

Even though the technical term for jam made from fruit juice may be jelly, it isn't really used as an everyday term. In the supermarket, on the "jam" shelves, you might see a jar marked as "bramble jelly" "apricot preserve". At breakfast in a hotel you would be offered a selection of jam and marmalade.

Post Script: I've just remembered another category of jellies, eaten with savoury foods.
Q: "Would you like jam with your lamb?"
A: "Yuk"
Q: "Would you like jelly with your lamb?"
A: "Yuk"
Q: "Would you like redcurrant jelly with you lamb?"
A: "Mmmm, quite possibly"
So we do have the precedent of eating jelly but we choose to forget, possibly because we only hear "redcurrant-jelly", rather than filing it in our brain as jelly(redcurrant). I dunno.

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#40314 - 09/05/01 10:25 AM words about food, not recipes
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Re: another category of jellies..

I am with faldage, jelly is made from fruit juice, and is clear.
it it naturally thickened, or has added pectin: a naturally occuring fruit product that jells liquid-- also an ingredient in Kayopectate

but jellies.. jellies are jelled candy.. as in jelly beans, or Chuckles, or chocolate covered, jellied raspberry rings-- a staple in NY candy stores.

a store might have a large selection of jelly, jam and preserves.. not a selection of jellies..unless it sold candy.

and curiously, in US, Mint Jelly-- (found in same place as fruit jellies, jams and preserves) is served with lamb, not red current jelly.(neither in my house!) Mint jelly is mint tea made with an apple juice base, pectin and tinted green--vile stuff!

and red current jelly or lemon curd can only be found in gourmet shops. and lingoberry and cloudberry in Ikea. Chutney and other spice fruit condiments, including ketchup, are grouped with pickles in most stores.

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#40315 - 09/06/01 10:55 PM Re: Jelly is not preserves
Bobyoungbalt Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
I was sure I could settle the question of exactly what jam and jelly is and Lo! I found the definitive source.

Explanatory Notes to the Harmonized Commodity Description and Coding System is a very scholarly and universally accepted sourcebook on the meaning of terms used in the Harmonized Tariff System, which is the classification of goods for import or export used by nearly every country in the world to categorize goods so they can be declared and duty assessed. Chapter 20 covers prepared foodstuffs and heading 2007 covers jams, jellies and other preparations of fruits. Only jams and jellies are mentioned; the word "preserves" is not.

The Explanatory Notes saith:
Jams are made by boiling whole fruit or fruit pulp or certain vegetables (e.g., marrows, aubergines) or other products (e.g., ginger, rose petals) with sugar in approximately equal proportions. When cool they are of moderately firm consistency and contain pieces of the fruit.
Marmalades are a variety of jam generally prepared from citrus fruit.
Fruit jellies are prepared by boiling fruit juices (expressed from raw or cooked fruit) with sugar until the product sets on cooling. They are of firm consistency and free from pieces of fruit.


In the U.S., the word "jam" has the meaning noted above, but it is not used as nearly as frequently as in UK English, and it is rare that it is called that on the label of a jar (except, of course, imported jams). A domestic jar of jam is invariably labelled as "strawberry preserves", or "apricot preserves" or whatever.

BTW, I expect I shall use the Explanatory Notes again some time to settle a question of exactly what something means. It's a really fascinating work and has legal authority. I spent hours once learning about fabrics, and the exact description (often with pictures or drawings) and meaning of words like twill, denim, gabardine, jersey, selvage, orlon, ramie etc.




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#40316 - 09/07/01 05:56 AM Harmonized Commodities
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
BobY, I love that title! What a wonderful thing to do to commodities!
In my experience, jam is in fact a bit different from preserves. Both contain pieces of fruit, but preserves, and marmalade for that matter, tend to be "looser". That is, they can pour off your spoon, albeit slowly. Jam just
sits there in a determined clump, even if you turn your spoon upside down. Mostly I see strawberry preserves on the grocery store shelves, yes, but occasionally strawberry jam as well. But I don't think I have ever heard of say,
blackberry or raspberry preserves. They are always jam or jelly, here.

Now--since you mention material (is that different than
"fabric", by the way, in the Harmony book?), I have seen, felt, and worn ramie cotton, and I am hoping you will tell me what the differences are between something labeled ramie and something labeled cotton.


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#40317 - 09/07/01 08:51 AM Re: Harmonized Commodities
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
yes, I am with Jackie.. I think your book could be wonderfull for exploring the difference between cotton, ramie, and rayon..
I think, cotton is fabric made from the fruiting body of a cotton plant, but rayon is fabric made from celulose, plant materiel from stem or trunk of a trees, and ramie? ramie, i think is fiber from plants too, it is, i think, something similar to linen, there fiber is found in leaves, stems, and seperated from the pulp of the plant using lye... but i am not clear on the difference between rayon and ramie.. since both are made from fibers found in stems/leaves/trunks. Is ramie, a generic? and pineapple cloth (made from the fibers extracted from pineapple leaves) a specific kind of ramie? or is ramie narrowly defined like cotton?

and garbardine and denim? denim is a strong, thick cotton gaberdine, that is, it is woven with a strong diagonal pattern, created by a 2 under, 1 over weave.. and twill is a gaberdine type weave, but the pattern is alternated, so as to create a cheveron pattern in the weave..

but what make denim differernt that gaberdine?
english is filled with all these technical terms that we use vaguely..

_________________________
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#40318 - 09/07/01 10:29 AM Re: Harmonized Commodities
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Ramie = Here is a good URL about ramie: http://www.newcrops.uq.edu.au/newslett/ncn11162.htm


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#40319 - 09/07/01 09:37 PM Re: Harmonized Commodities
Bobyoungbalt Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
Well, I'll have to spend some time with the book and take notes.

Bill provided a link to a site which tells about ramie. I knew that it was a distinct kind of vegetable fibre of oriental origin, and I have a sweater made of ramie, at least in part, so I know what it's like. It's like coarse silk.

Cotton is, of course, made from the fibre of cotton plants, of which there are various types. Rayon has nothing to do with ramie; rayon is a man-made fibre like nylon, orlon, etc.

I'll compile what looks to me like some interesting dope on fabric and post it. If you have any specific questions, pm or email me.


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