Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#33954 06/29/01 01:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
J
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
J
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
the burning of Washington
None of my school books ever mentioned that the Americans burned various Canadian cities before they burned Washington, but I found them out when my dad showed me a history of Canada that said we did.


#33955 06/29/01 01:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
B
old hand
Offline
old hand
B
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
What else did she tell you?

Well, the definitive proof of her incompetence came when she tried to tell us that the name Montreal was a misnomer, because there was not actually a "Mount Royal" in Montreal. That seemed extremely suspect since I had been there and climbed Mount Royal on a rather warm day, and I was pretty sure I wasn't imagining things...

The scary part is wondering how much incorrect information I got from her that I spout back on occasion to prove a point! This is why I check my Canadian history facts with other sources these days, because I "learned" them in her class...


#33956 06/29/01 04:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
wondering how much incorrect information I got from her

Well, Bean, I reckon you are well ahead of the herd. At least you are casting a critical eye over your own store of knowledge, which is, I think, the sign of true wisdom. Many people lack this insight.


#33957 06/29/01 05:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
J
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
Speaking of the early US and Canada, I recall hearing somewhere that Nova Scotia was originally close with the 13 colonies and was actually a 14th colony, but they abstained from declaring independence with the others. I'm doubtful of the verity of this, but I found it interesting. It would seem logical that it wouldn't be discussed in US History texts if it is indeed true, but has anyone else heard about this?


#33958 06/29/01 05:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218
Nova Scotia was originally close with the 13 colonies and was actually a 14th colony

At the onset of the war, many loyalists fled to Canada and primarily, Nova Scotia. In mid-1776, the Revolutionary War turned towards Canada with the aim to make Canada as a whole a "fourteenth colony" and to remove it as a base from which Britain could launch attacks and invasions. Calling Canada the "attempted fourteenth colony" is common in then literature, but I could only find scattered references to Nova Scotia proper being named thus.



#33959 06/29/01 05:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218

#33960 06/29/01 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Darn those double posts.
'S'all right, Sweetie. If it bothers you, just "Edit" and delete one. Though I think if you simply empty the text and subject boxes, the post quietly goes away, instead of leaving a line screaming Post Deleted by Brandon.


#33961 06/29/01 11:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Actually, if you look at the whole thing from a geopolitical point of view, although the British "won" the war, neither side really achieved its original war aims. In fact, the casus belli for the Americans (pressment of American sailors) wasn't even included in the articles of the Treaty of Ghent. The original war aims had got lost in the fog of war, rhetoric and poor communications.

What it all really proved was that the real cost of defending a country with a coastline as long as the US's was prohibitive given the communications and transportation available at the time. Similarly, the cost of attacking a country with a coastline as long as the US's was equally prohibitive. To win a territorial war, you must take and hold each piece of disputed territory. Neither side could do this in the War of 1812 - the Americans lacked the discipline necessary to achieve a successful invasion of Canada, and the British just really wanted the war to stop and were actually simply carrying out a police action. Their interests lay elsewhere at the time.

On the face of it, the Americans lost, hands down. At no time did they achieve their immediate battle aims in full, and they appeared to have no firm war aims at all. The Battle of New Orleans aside, they won few, if any, real and unequivocal victories, although the Indians fighting with them did. It cost a young country a bundle it could ill-afford for nothing other than a bit of national pride in return. Some say that it cemented the independence of the States, but that was pretty much a fait accompli by 1812 anyway, and I don't buy the argument.

FWIW.



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#33962 06/30/01 12:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Surprised no one has mentioned our "illustrious" National Athem, The Star-Spangled Banner in this discussion. Francis Scott Key wrote the lyric while watching the British shelling of Ft. McHenry in Baltimore Harbor during this war (Sept.13-14, 1814). And, consequently, the US wound up with The Star-Spangled (usually mangled) Banner as our National Anthem instead of America (the Beautiful). For that alone you could say we lost the war!
But, of course, all through school we were taught we won the War of 1812 simply because we staved the British off from attempting to conquer and take back our young nation. But they also taught us that Lincoln freed the slaves and everybody lived happily ever after...(Reconstruction? Jim Crow? Sharecropping? What's all that?)

One war they never taught us except for a mere mention was the Mexican - American War (1846-48). I always wondered why they didn't (because it was a mighty sizeable conflict) until I discovered that Gen. Winfield Scott, violating centuries of wartime "etiquette," ordered the shelling of Veracruz and its civilian population. Wouldn't want schoolchildren to think that we Americans were responsible for relaunching ancient (and, now, modern) barbarism back into warfare, now would we?

Note: The they referred to is "my teachers," of course. Obviously, as already noted on this board, lesson plans vary tremendously for a variety of reasons!


#33963 06/30/01 04:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Yep, I've noted in a number of American publications that the British wanted to "take back" the United States. Yet as far as I can remember from my reading of history, nothing could be further from the truth. The British were fully occupied in Europe at the time, and, in any case, were not in the slightest bit interested in colonial self-aggrandisement. That came some years later, well after the Napoleonic Wars. They were damned annoyed at the US for stirring it up at the time, and their sole war aim was to prevent the US annexing Canada. Plus, there was probably a punitive element to their actions - burning Washington had no strategic value, and I'm sure they knew that. It amazes me that anyone could have thought that Britain was seriously considering reacquiring the US at that time. They provided the minimum resources of the lowest possible quality to stave the US off - with a few exceptions. They wanted peace in the Americas. The conflict cost them too much at an awkward time both militarily and politically.

Again, FWIW.



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,271
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 399 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,502
LukeJavan8 9,915
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5