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#3080 - 05/30/00 02:22 PM Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
As a child I travelled fifteen miles to a senior school which drew pupils from a wide catchment area. As we sat and consumed our packed lunches we began to notice the different names we all used for a bread roll. The name seemed to change every five miles or so. I suppose that bread is traditionally made in a local bakery and doesn't need to have a name which is understood beyond the immediate area.

What names are used in your part of the world for a bread roll - I wonder how many we can come up with!

I'll add mine to the list later


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#3081 - 05/30/00 05:45 PM Re: Bread Rolls
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
When people I know say bread, they usually mean a loaf that
can be sliced. A roll is considered as something you eat
w/ dinner, preferably warm and buttered. Rolls are usually
made w/ yeast. We also eat biscuits, w/ any meal but
esp. breakfast. These are made from a yeastless dough that is rolled out and cut into circles.
The name sweet roll speaks for itself. Not very many people
here use the term sweet buns, though I have heard the name
cinnamon buns. If we just say, "pass the buns", that is
generally understood to be a pre-packaged, pre-sliced kind
of roll intended for making sandwiches (ex. hamburger bun).


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#3082 - 05/31/00 02:51 AM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
We would call a biscuit the thing that you would call a cookie.

I think an American biscuit is closer to a British scone - but I think that a scone would be thicker (?) They are sometimes plain, sometimes with raisins or sultanas, sometimes with cheese.


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#3083 - 05/31/00 02:39 PM Re: Bread Rolls
GZini Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 19
Loc: Washington, DC, USA
I make sandwiches on rolls, not buns, but I wonder if I've simply been using the wrong word all along!

The scones I've had are a bit harder and drier than American biscuits, but that could possibly be attributed to inadequate preparation. I've only had them in America.


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#3084 - 05/31/00 03:13 PM Re: Bread Rolls
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
My (Norweigian) grandmother made bread loaves and buns interchangeably from the same dough; often chopped fruit was added and the results were glazed. At Easter-time we have hot cross buns. Baking soda biscuits (yeast-less) are also called popovers, aren't they?


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#3085 - 06/01/00 07:42 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
>>Baking soda biscuits (yeast-less) are also called popovers, aren't they?<<
I tried a popover recipe once, so long ago that I don't
remember the ingredients. I do remember that they came out
rounded like dinner rolls, and had a weird crunchy
top crust. Give me nice, soft, flat biscuits any day!
(with no okra in them!)



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#3086 - 06/01/00 10:06 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
A bread roll in this part of the world is one that resembles a hot-dog roll and is usually eaten with soup or cheese and cold meats.

We have two new terms for other types of bread rolls. Hamburger rolls are called 'bundys' which came from the product name of a famous bakery. Baguettes or demi-baguettes are served up as sandwiches at lunchtime. Much tastier and crispier than the old bread rolls of times past!


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#3087 - 06/01/00 02:32 PM Now in "Smello-vision"
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
The good news it that Jackie sent me a recipe for biscuits, which I have now baked. I had suggested that she post some to me but had much more sense.

They were quite delicious and rather like ..... scones (savoury ones without sugar). So I'll send her my recipe for scones so we can have a double blind trial (well at least it feels like one). Its a shame you can't all be invited round to taste them all!

The only problem is .. our recipes use ounces or grams but not (usually) cups and I remember a friend once telling me that most people don't have kitchen scales, so it might take us a while to work out the quantities.


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#3088 - 06/02/00 06:13 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> The only problem is .. our recipes use ounces or grams but not (usually) cups and I remember a friend once telling me
that most people don't have kitchen scales, so it might take us a while to work out the quantities.

Good God, no Jo! Imperial or metric is fine. Avoirdupois perhaps - but this whole mullarkey of cups just does my head in. I've often tried to cook meals from an old cookbook from the '60s and have ruined them simply because I failed to convert the amounts prperly from cups to grams/ounces. I'm sure everyone can work it out from accepted measures, right??

ps I was looking through a Cuba guidebook yesterday and found a recipe for a local soup. It's main ingredient? Okra!. I'll pass it on anon (an' on, an' on).


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#3089 - 06/02/00 08:38 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
okra, schmokra


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#3090 - 06/02/00 09:33 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
>>but this whole mullarkey of cups just does my head in...I'm sure everyone can work it out from accepted measures, right??<<

A-HEM: Cups ARE an accepted measure, here!




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#3091 - 06/02/00 09:42 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> A-HEM: Cups ARE an accepted measure, here!

Whoops! I was put straight by jmh about this earlier. Apologies....

What is a cup, anyway? The measurement, I mean.


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#3092 - 06/02/00 10:01 AM Re: cups
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
>>What is a cup, anyway? The measurement, I mean.

Depends. Do you want dry measure or wet measure?


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#3093 - 06/02/00 10:09 AM Re: cups
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> Depends. Do you want dry measure or wet measure?

Groan. This is what I was worried about. Give me ounces and pints, grams and litres anyday.


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#3094 - 06/02/00 01:56 PM Re: cups
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Rubrick,
... and then, of course, there are the ubiquitous Dixie cups.


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#3095 - 06/02/00 02:05 PM Re: cups
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
I didn't want to get into this. I have a strange feeling that a British cup is different to an American cup.

Our pint is 20 fluid ounces and a American pint is 16.
I have some American measuring cups (AA, I think) - I'll have to go and measure them. i suspect that they are 8 fluid ounces and ours are meant to be 10 fluid ounces but don't quote me.

I've never quite worked out how to measure butter in a cup - do you have to melt it first, or just squidge it in???


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#3096 - 06/02/00 03:20 PM Re: cups
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Jo's right about our pints. Hers are imperial and ours are colonial.
A liquid-measure cup in the US is half a pint, or 4 ounces.
A dry-measure cup in the US is 16 tablespoons. A tablespoon is 15 milliliters. Which is a liquid measure. (???)
I tend to squidge the butter in, Jo.

I think it's time for a pint without being in my cups.


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#3097 - 06/03/00 10:39 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
juanmaria Offline
member

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 163
Loc: Malaga, Spain.
>The good news it that Jackie sent me a recipe for biscuits, which I have now baked

What is it?. A gastronomic secret society?. I want to be included on that circle. I don’t mind if your recipes use troy ounces or avoirdupois, I want them!.
By the way, does your email software allow ‘biscuits attachments’?. If the answer is yes I want a free sample too.


Juan Maria.

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#3098 - 06/03/00 11:10 AM Re: buscuit attachments
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
hmmmm... cookies = buscuits... hmmmm...


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#3099 - 06/03/00 11:46 AM Re: buscuit attachments
juanmaria Offline
member

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 163
Loc: Malaga, Spain.
>hmmmm... cookies = buscuits... hmmmm...

I'm getting your point!. I think I've got a year's supply!.


Juan Maria.

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#3100 - 06/03/00 03:57 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Hi, juanmaria!
No, there is no secret gastronomic society. :-)
Jo just asked me to send her a sample of biscuits thru the
wires. Since my software does not accept biscuits, I sent
her the recipe instead. Its cookies are good, though!
She was kind enough to send me a scone recipe, which I shall
endeavor to mix up (and probably will, too!) as soon as I figure out what caster sugar is.

Jo!--that reminds me!--'Nother question: what on earth
is a crumpet??

To all: isn't it difficult, but interesting, to try and
describe something to someone with whom you have no
common frame of reference?


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#3101 - 06/03/00 07:25 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
I'm happy to mail any recipes to anyone - even Juan Maria - I just thought this site should not be cluttered up with recipes! Maybe our minds are on higher things. Just send me an e-mail and I'll forward anything you like (maybe not quite anything).




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#3102 - 06/03/00 08:15 PM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
On the subject of bread rolls - here is a selection from my school lunches:

Round shaped rolls:
Soft rolls
Crusty rolls
Barm cakes
Tea Cakes (with or without fruit)
Muffins (not like American muffins)
Oven Bottoms
Buns

Long/Oval shaped rolls
Bunnies

Crumpets (sometimes called Piklets) are rather different, a flat bread like thing, with holes in the top
http://www.ichef.com/ichef-recipes/Breads/18769.html
http://www.family.go.com/Features/family_0000_01/dony/breakfast/0327pikletbrk.html

The strangest thing I found on my travels was an “English Muffin”, discovered when I was living in New York. I had never seen anything like it in England. It was a little like a double crumpet with a flat top and bottom and a holey middle.

At that time I had a friend from the USA who was living in London. She was always discovering rather strange items purporting to be “American” so she told me not to worry. Recently a supplier must have discovered “English Muffins” in the USA and they are now on sale in England as “muffins”.



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#3103 - 06/04/00 05:41 AM Re: Bread Rolls
David108 Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I'm intrigued - what are "oven bottoms"?

A well-known fast-food chain here sells a breakfast McMuffin, which fits the description you mention as "English Muffin".

The other reason I don't eat it is that it looks totally unpalatable!





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#3104 - 06/04/00 08:26 AM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Oven bottoms are flat(ish) round soft bread rolls with the middle indented very slightly. They use up the space in the bottom of the oven when the baker is baking the loaves, hence the name. They were originally sold cheaply, I guess, as they were more of a by-product of the baking but in my local area became very popular.

As I said at the beginning, there was never any need for the names of bread items to travel very far, so it is probably very local to my part of North Manchester.

Yes I believe that the well-known fast food chain does sell "English Muffins" and puts unpleasant things on them.



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#3105 - 06/06/00 06:16 AM Re: cups
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> Jo's right about our pints. Hers are imperial and ours are colonial.
A liquid-measure cup in the US is half a pint, or 4 ounces.
A dry-measure cup in the US is 16 tablespoons. A tablespoon is 15 milliliters. Which is a liquid measure. (???)
I tend to squidge the butter in, Jo.

I think it's time for a pint without being in my cups.

Hmmmm....... Seems that if I go drinking in 'Fado's' I'll get short-changed on my 'pint', Anna.


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#3106 - 06/06/00 06:31 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> Soft rolls
Crusty rolls
Barm cakes
Tea Cakes (with or without fruit)
Muffins (not like American muffins)
Oven Bottoms
Buns

I know them all, Jo, except for the oven bottoms. Are barm cakes what we know in Ireland as 'Barm brack'? They are rich fruit cakes usually eaten at Hallowe'en and baked with a 'gold' ring in them. Delicious with butter!


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#3107 - 06/06/00 11:43 AM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Re: Barm Cakes - They are just ordinary medium sised soft rolls.

I'll have to try out Barm Brack - is the "gold ring" a bit like the cross in hot cross buns or is it marzipan?

It sounds a bit like Bara Brith (I think) a rich fruit cake kind of thing. I've seen Yorkshire Brack which may (or may not be similar).

Here's a link to a picture of Yorkshire Brack (its linked to an advert but I have no financial interest in the goods being sold, although it is all rather wonderful - yum) http://www.botham.co.uk/brack.htm



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#3108 - 06/06/00 12:10 PM Re: Bread Rolls
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> I'll have to try out Barm Brack - is the "gold ring" a bit like the cross in hot cross buns or is it marzipan?

It sounds a bit like Bara Brith (I think) a rich fruit cake kind of thing. I've seen Yorkshire Brack which may (or may not be
similar).

They are identical, Jo! I thought it was solely an Irish dish but now I see that it is quite widespread across Britain, too.

The ring is real. Most Bracks have a soft metal one (something for the kids) but there are some bakers who put real gold rings into a (small) percentage of their bracks in order to boost sales. Since everyone eats brack at Hallowe'en this is a very clever marketing ploy considering the amount of competition.


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#3109 - 06/06/00 04:05 PM Re: Brack
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
I think you were right the first time - it probably is mainly Irish but with little enclaves around Britain that produce something similar.

The rings sound fun, like putting a silver sixpence in a Christmas Pudding.


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#3110 - 06/06/00 04:08 PM Re: Brack
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> The rings sound fun, like putting a silver sixpence in a Christmas Pudding.

Do people still carry on that tradition??


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#3111 - 06/06/00 04:17 PM Re: Brack
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Yep (not too many trips to the hospital to get foreign bodies removed, so far).


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#3112 - 06/06/00 04:33 PM Re: Brack
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> Yep (not too many trips to the hospital to get foreign bodies removed, so far).

Which reminds me of that dreadful old joke about the schoolboy who swallowed a sixpence - but it was alright. It was his dinner money. No, I didn't laugh this time, either.

That was a poor way to achieve membership, wasn't it kids?


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#3113 - 06/06/00 05:46 PM Christmas Pudding
Meta4 Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/01/00
Posts: 13
Loc: Sydney, Australia
We also had little silver charms in ours: money bags, silver spoon, bachelor's button... They were notionally indicative of your year ahead. Anyone know any more?


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#3114 - 06/08/00 07:45 PM Re: Christmas Pudding
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Disclaimer, first:
I cannot abide black-eyed peas, so I have no direct experience with this custom. But, I believe, among people who like them here, that it is a tradition that whoever gets the bowlful on Jan. 1st. that contains the dime that was dropped into the pot, will have extra-good luck throughout the year.


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#3115 - 06/09/00 03:05 PM Re: bachelor's button
David108 Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
What, pray tell, is a bachelor's button? I have an image of some young, eligible spinster finding this thing in her Christmas cake, having to sew the button back on the owner's shirt, and then marrying him.

Or am I being an incurable romantic?




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#3116 - 06/10/00 05:04 AM Re: bachelor's button
paulb Offline
addict

Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 460
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Brewer says (in his wonderful old-fashioned prose): Buttons, similar in principle to press-studs used in dressmaking, and affixed without the need of sewing, hence the name. Also, several button-shaped flowers are so called … rustics were wont to put them in their pockets and their growth was an indication that they would find favour with their sweethearts. Maidens wore them under their aprons.


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#3117 - 06/10/00 07:12 AM Re: bachelor's button
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Oh, paulb, thank you!!
I always just thought bachelor's buttons were another
name for cornflowers! Never occurred to me there was a
history behind the name! They were the very first flowers
my then-husband-to-be gave me, and do you know, I treasure
the memory of them even more than I do of the 20 red roses
he gave me this year on our 20th anniversary!


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#3118 - 06/14/00 11:14 AM Re: Soda Bread
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Rubrick

I was wondering why you hadn't mentioned my favourite bread. I always associate soda bread with Ireland we can get it here but it never tastes as good. I was wondering if Jackie's biscuit had its origins in soda bread. It sounds like it fulfills a similar role in the diet but soda bread has no added fat. Is "Scofa" bread the same thing?


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#3119 - 06/15/00 06:18 AM Re: Soda Bread
Rubrick Offline
addict

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
> I was wondering why you hadn't mentioned my favourite bread. I always associate soda bread with Ireland we can get it
here but it never tastes as good. I was wondering if Jackie's biscuit had its origins in soda bread. It sounds like it fulfills
a similar role in the diet but soda bread has no added fat. Is "Scofa" bread the same thing?

Sorry about that - it never occurred to me to mention it. Soda bread has everything - a light texture, a full taste and no fat! Though it tastes best when smothered with butter - yum!

'Scofa'? Sounds like couch potato language - i.e. 'scoffing on a sofa'

Anyone want the recipe for Soda bread? Send me a private and I'll get back to you. It's very easy to make.


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#3120 - 06/15/00 03:06 PM Re: Soda Bread
David108 Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Where does sourdough bread come into all of this? Is it soda bread pronounced differently?


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#3121 - 06/15/00 03:22 PM Re: Soda Bread
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Sourdough bread is quite lovely and also quite different.

Soda bread does not have any yeast and relies on the action of the baking soda to make the bread rise. http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~owls/sodabred.htm

Sourdough uses a yeast "starter" which is well described in the following website http://joejaworski.com/bread1.htm

The great thing about Sourdough bread is, for me, that it doesn't have any added sugar. When I lived in New York for a while in the early eighties I spent ages trailing round shops in search of bread that was not heavily manufactured. I didn't discover any bread that did not taste sweet. I began to wonder if it was possible to make bread without sugar (I checked with a baker back here, the yeast works quite happily without sugar). I was delighted when I went back to the USA in the early nineties to discover the popularity of sourdough bread. I'm sure it was there all the time, I was just looking in the wrong places!



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#3122 - 06/26/00 11:54 PM Re: Bread Rolls
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
I am typing this out timorously because I know I am going to put my foot in (the dough?) when it comes to describing the differences between the breads, and my ignorance begins to show. But I feel the list won't be complete (for me) without our Indian breads. So here goes…

Our traditional breads in India are of the unleavened variety. The generic name for bread is called Roti (pronounced roeti). Roti is unleavened - a chapatti is a Roti. If you want to buy the kind of bread/rolls of the West, in India you ask for "Double Roti". I don't why double.

Then there are the kinds of breads that are not cooked in the homes of India but they are ever present in an Indian meal at a hotel. They are :-

Nan - pronounced naan, the dough is stuck to the side of the tandoor (oven) and when it is done it falls of and cooks a bit on the charcoal in the oven. Apart from that what I know about this bread is if not eaten fresh you have bare you teeth and pull like a dog to bite into it.

Kulcha - this is the sibling of a nan. The difference that I know of is a Kulcha has Onion and Corriander stuck on top of it and is shaped round. Where as Naan doesn't and is triangular.

Roomali Roti - This is a bread with a character. I like it cos it is light on the stomach. "Roomal" means handkerchief. And Roomali is "Handkerchief like" . The Roti spread out by twirling the hands on top of the head. Then it is dropped on the bottom of a pot that is placed upside down on the fire. And there it cooks. The roti is so thin that you can see through it. And when served it is folded like one folds a handkerchief.

Paratha - This is made in the homes of India. What makes a Paratha different from the rest is it is stuffed with Potato or white radish or cauliflower. It is thick with the stuffing inside it and a meal in its self. It needs a lot of oil and not exactly up Health Street, and that is the reason why it is so tasty

Puri - (pronounced poorie) Get the most marks for taste and the least marks for health. It is deep fried in oil. And when dough (made from wheat) is put on oil the air inside expands and the Puri swells in to a ball. A Puri also has character - of a different kind.

P.S I made the mistake of spell checking this, Shakespeare the Spell Checker went beserk with all the Indian words.


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#3123 - 06/27/00 03:28 AM Re: Indian breads
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Thank you for your definitions. I hadn't realised that nan was cooked on the side of the oven - I can see why it is so hard to cook at home.

I used to live near an South Indian vegetarian restaurant that served dosa. Would you count that as bread too. My favourite one was, I think, called paper dosa it was served in a great big fan shape looking like one of those elegantly folded napkins rising high above the plate.

The same restaurant made wonderful puris which were floated on a dish full of something made of yoghurt (like a raita).

The other staple of British Indian restaurants is the poppadom which I suppose is more like a big crisp (chip) than bread. I'm not sure if you would classify it with the breads.


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#3124 - 06/27/00 05:05 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Bridget Offline
addict

Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
I'd like to add 'bap' to your list. I think it is a Yorkshire word but wouldn't bet on it.

And if you really want to widen the discussion you need to look at all the things they'll offer you in a sandwich shop in Sydney - pitta bread, lavash, focaccia and so on. One of the best things about living in a melting pot of immigration!

What about mantou - Chinese steamed roll made from wheat, with or without filling? IS this a bread or a dumpling?

What makes bread bread? Is it the ingredients or the cooking methods or both?


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#3125 - 06/27/00 05:31 AM Re: Indian breads
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
No. Dosas can't be classified as bread. They have a pride of place in the Indian cuisine all of their own. It would (I think) be more appropriate to call them a kind of pancake. The batter is made out of rice flour and black gram lentils. You spread it out on a skillet and cook it. Later stuffed with potato it becomes Masala Dosa. Paper Dosas we get in India are 2 feet long. They carry on way after plate gets over. You need some appetite to eat one.

Popaddams are called Papads here. They would again not be bread but would come under the wafers, chips or crisps family.





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#3126 - 06/27/00 06:58 AM Re: Indian breads
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>Dosas can't be classified as bread

Thanks, I've always wondered how they were made.


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#3127 - 06/27/00 07:15 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Avy--
Thank you for that fascinating list!

Bridget--
>>What makes bread bread? Is it the ingredients or the cooking methods or both?<< Good point. I've never considered cornbread to be bread, interestingly. It's too different. Never mind that bread is part of its name!

To all, but esp. Jo--
in one of Mary Stewart's books, she mentions "singin' hinnies". What are these, some kind of scone? The story
takes place in Scotland or England, as I recall.







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#3128 - 06/27/00 07:21 AM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>I'd like to add 'bap' to your list. I think it is a Yorkshire word but wouldn't bet on it.

Yes it is a popular word in Yorkshire and parts of Lancashire too, I'm not sure how far it travels as a common word. Baps are usually fairly large slightly domed soft rolls with a dusting of flour. In Edinburgh the same kind of thing is called a "morning roll", as far as I see that's because they seem to go so hard if you keep them for long.

Pitta bread and all the other Mediterranean flat breads are common now. Once in the late seventies my friend decided to make kebabs - she described pitta bread to us but we couldn't find it in any of the shops - it shows how much things have changed.

Focaccia I know, especially the garlic and herbed varieties. Ciabatta is another popular Italian bread made with olive oil.

German rye bread and Pumpernickle are readily available now.

Lavash - I've not heard of.

The Chinese steamed rolls tend to be called dumplings.

This makes it hard to find a definition for bread. It's regarded as a staple in the diets of many countries - it is immortalised in the term "daily bread". I think that most of the varieties mentioned use flour (mainly wheat flour) and most(but not all) are baked in some kind of oven. Some have yeast, others don't. Some have fat (biscuit, ciabatta), most don't. Some are cooked in a pan. Is there a definition?



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#3129 - 06/28/00 12:54 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
In reply to:

>I'd like to add 'bap' to your list. I think it is a Yorkshire word but wouldn't bet on it.

Yes it is a popular word in Yorkshire and parts of Lancashire too, I'm not sure how far it travels as a common word. Baps are usually fairly large slightly domed soft rolls with a dusting of flour.


I grew up in Bucks in the South East of England and although the things themselves weren't that common, we did call them baps whenever we came across them. As I remember, they were the roll of choice for homemade burgers.

Bingley

_________________________
Bingley

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#3130 - 06/28/00 04:39 AM Re: Bread Rolls
David108 Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
>>I'd like to add 'bap' to your list... ...I'm not sure how far it travels as a common word.<<

It travels to New Zealand, certainly. Although I haven't yet found a baker who makes one that is halfway palatable!

We also get panini, and the flat dough that is used to wrap Kebabs. Pita bread is a rarity!

In South Africa, a kebab is made of alternate pieces of meat, onion, tomato, mushroom, etc., on a skewer, grilled over an open flame. That which is called "Kebab" here is known as "Schwarma" in South Africa, and in most Middle eastern countries.




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#3131 - 06/28/00 05:39 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
Jo,
Does your post with the AWArD for most number of replies?
I should think it does. Its good enough to be documented.
Avy


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#3132 - 06/28/00 09:39 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Lavash is a round bread from, I believe, the Balkan area.
My attempt at making it fell flat--my yeast was too old, as
I recall (threw away the recipe in disgust).
Jo, I agree that this should not become a recipe exchange Board, but I can't resist posting this TWO-ingredient
bread that the worst cook in the world could make:

Two and two-thirds Cups of self-rising flour(NOT cake flour)
12 ounces of beer, freshly opened.

Heat oven to 375F.
Lightly grease a 9x5x3-inch loaf pan.
Put flour in a medium bowl. Add beer and stir with a
rubber spatula just until mixed. Scrape into prepared pan.
Bake 50 to 55 minutes until top is lightly browned, sides pull away from the pan, and a knife inserted in the center
comes out clean. Let it sit in the pan on a wire rack for
five minutes, then turn it out onto the rack to cool.

This does have a beery flavor, but I like the bread anyway.
My husband really enjoyed making it.

Sorry, all those who are metric/Centigrade.
All feel free to take me to task for posting a recipe--I
just thought it was so unusual.


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#3133 - 06/28/00 05:09 PM Re: singin' hinnies
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
It looks like you are right - they are a pan-baked scone from Northumberland (top right hand corner of England, just before you bump into the Scottish border country).

http://www.hwatson.force9.co.uk/cookbook/recipes/baking/singinhinnies.htm

As you said the story takes place in Scotland or England, here's why it was probably a bit of both - the area changed sides so often I think people were never quite sure if they were English or Scottish:
http://www.hwatson.force9.co.uk/regional cooking/northumbria.htm

And here's a song to finish:
http://www.geordietheme.tyneside.com/billy.html


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#3134 - 06/29/00 04:18 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Bridget Offline
addict

Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
<In South Africa, a kebab is made of alternate pieces of meat, onion, tomato, mushroom, etc., on a skewer, grilled over an open flame. That which is called "Kebab" here is known as "Schwarma" in South Africa, and in most Middle eastern countries.>

I thought there was a distinction between shish kebab ('stuff' on a stick, as you are talking about in South Africa) and doner kebab ('stuff' in a pitta bread) and possibly several other kinds of kebab that I can't remember at all now. Anyone got any ideas?



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#3135 - 06/29/00 04:27 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Bridget Offline
addict

Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
<<Lavash is a round bread from, I believe, the Balkan area.
My attempt at making it fell flat--my yeast was too old, as
I recall (threw away the recipe in disgust).>>

In Sydney at least, lavash is not necessarily round. You can buy it in squares and it is a flat malleable bread which is used to make 'wraps' - ie spread your ingredients on it and roll up to eat.

Apparently (my partner works for Australia's second largest baker, though not in the factory) it also comes in yeasted and unyeasted versions. Sorry, but recipes are trade secrets - not that that will sto me testing yours!


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#3136 - 06/29/00 07:37 AM Re: singin' hinnies
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
OH!!
Jo,
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU !!!!!!!
These are SO COOL!!!!!!!!
Oh, the one even said WHY they're called singin' hinnies!
How neat! (That reminded me of how pleased I was to learn
why bubble-and-squeak got its name.)
Oh, you have just made my day!


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#3137 - 06/30/00 05:32 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
Bridget
There is the Shish Kebab, Tangdi Kebab, Kalmi Kabab, Peshawari Kebab, Lukhnavi Kebab ... (many more). Anything that is a piece of boneless meat and is barbecued is a Kebab.
In the languages of the subcontinent - the phrase that has a meaning similar to "Two is company, three is a crowd" (meaning you are unwanted) is "You're a being a bone in the Kebab."



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#3138 - 06/30/00 09:24 AM Re: Bread Rolls
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
>>"You're a being a bone in the Kebab."<<
Thanks, Avy! I'll have to try that on some
unsuspecting soul.





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#3139 - 11/07/00 03:25 AM Re: Bread Rolls
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
As this relates to "English as a Local Language", I'll see if I can move it up the list a little as when I try to look at it it merges with another thread!


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#3140 - 11/07/00 05:14 AM Nostalgia trip here...
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Jo

Besides your 'standard' dosa, a staple of South Indian homes, there are a number of related types. You have mentioned the masala dosa already, as well as the paper dosa (luxurious fare at 'Udipi' restaurants throughout India). There is also the delumptious (Enid Blyton anyone) ghee dosa (or nayya dosa, as we sometimes called it). Plus the truly scrumplicious, if you like the type, rawa dosa - made from a different batter, with a rougher texture and different flavour. Then (for the real specialists in South Indian food) there are things called aapams, cooked somewhat like a dosa, but in a bowl, so the centres becomes think and spongy. Which leads us along the continuum to idlis - steamed flying-saucer shaped 'foods' made from a batter very similar to that of dosas (identical, in some households).

Finally, for what it's worth, good dosa 'mixture', should be prepared by grinding it in a large stone mortar and pestle, and left to ferment slightly overnight.

Ahhh... brings back the memories of nayya dosa and podi. (Do they have that in Bangalore, Avy?)

cheer

the sunshine (momentarily sidetracked) warrior


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#3141 - 11/08/00 04:19 AM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Thanks Shanks for stopping from the main cut and thrust of debate momentarily to cast your thoughts back to dosas. I'm feeling quite hungry already.

I had some funny flying saucer things once (in some kind of yoghurty sauce). I expect they would taste excellent with lashings of ginger beer.


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#3142 - 11/08/00 04:36 AM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Thanks Shanks for stopping from the main cut and thrust of debate momentarily to cast your thoughts back to dosas.

What? You want me to talk about the US Presidential election farce instead? Gore has about 200,000 more of the popular vote, but Bush will probably be President because he will win Florida by 324 votes. And the Labour party in this country (sorry Tony, New Labour) is running scared of proportional representation. Anyone want to pay a huge advance for my forthcoming book: "How to be a politican and prevent democratic representation"?

Rant mode off. I think I should stick to arcane breads...

cheer

the sunshine warrior


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#3143 - 11/08/00 05:20 AM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>US Presidential election farce instead

As you know Shanks, we are quite capable of having our own electoral farces. Wasn't one of Margaret Thatcher's victories "landslide" based on her only winning 33% of the vote? Come to Scotland where PR is doing OK (I think). The only problem was that the voting paper was about half a mile long and we had three different sets of papers to deal with. Back to bread rolls, I think.


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#3144 - 11/08/00 06:48 AM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Politics = bread + circus


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#3145 - 11/08/00 12:42 PM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
. And the Labour party in this country (sorry Tony, New Labour) is running scared of proportional representation.

There was a distinct cooling in the relationship between the UK and NZ wehn NZ introduced Mixed Member PR. The Queen herself was in a position to open NZ's Parliament at the time, so she had to read one speech from the throne extolling MMPR, and another back home explaining why it is an evil to be shunned!


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#3146 - 11/08/00 05:43 PM Sorry, politics again
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
it's politics again, please feel free not to read this post if you prefer (understandably) not to discuss politics
Max -
How does MMPR different to the system we have in Scotland? The Scottish Parliament consists of 129 members (MSPs) 73 of whom were directly elected on a constituency basis with 56 additional members elected from 8 regions by PR. I've looked it up and have discovered that it is called Additional Member PR. I know that people found the two (and in some cases, 3) separate voting slips very confusing.

I found a relevant Scottish Parliament report on voter awareness and was particularly interested in the comment: "However, by May '99 around one in 5 respondents (21%) still claimed to understand nothing at all about the voting system for the Scottish Parliament."
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/cru/kd01/assess07.htm

I wonder if New Zealand fared any better?

[P.S. I just found this but I still don't see the difference: http://home.golden.net/~world/articles/feb232000.htm]

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#3147 - 11/08/00 06:26 PM Re: Sorry, politics again
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
I think it's all about nomenclature - that which we call an MMPR Parliament, would by any other name, be the same collection of politicians. NZ's system is basically this - 120 seats in Parliament about 60 electorate seats, the difference elected by PR - 5% threshhold for seats under PR, but if any party wins an electorate seat, it will get seats in the House proportionate to its total vote. Thus, the Greens, who got about 4.7% of the vote would have been excluded from Parliament but for the fact that they won an electorate sdeat, which meant that they got 5 seats in the house - much to the chagrin of the NZ Labour Party which would have been able to govern alone had The Greens not got those seats. It's incredibly complicated, but it is representational, unlike the US system, and our old FPP, where it is quite possible to win outright with a minority of the popular vote. This seems very likely to happen in the present US election - a president elected on a minority of the popular vote, and this happened many times in NZ under first-past-the-post. As an abstract, I think PR is fundamentally closer to pure democracy than FPP, but whether it results in better government, I am not qualified to say, especially as I choose not to vote.


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#3148 - 11/09/00 01:35 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
yes, jo, fresh hot country biscuits are wonderful-- but jackies are even better than yours. i am sure, Not that you aren't a wonder cook.
Its not just the changes that come from measuring, but the flour. American flour tends to be softer (the wheat kernel) than most european flours. (Julia child, i believe, in Mastering the art of french cooking did a bit of rant, on how to make real french style bread, and that you couldn't unless you started in the wheat fields!)
Next time try mixing your standard flour with half "cake flour" cake flour has less gluten, and is "Softer"
The moisture level of the flour makes a difference too, since american flour is less dry, a given volume usually weighs more, since it has been bleached white, and not aged white. and that effects the biscuits, too.
Biscuits, hot from the oven are a form of heaven!

I also like soda bread-- especially brown bread, made with whole wheat and oat flours, irish style. but again because of the differences in flours, its always better in ireland.

_________________________
my other obsession

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#3149 - 11/09/00 05:07 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
I'm hopelessly confused by phrases like "cake flour" ans "sweet milk". We have plain flour (without any raising agent), self-raising flour (with), strong flour (for bread) and then different kinds of wholwheat or wholemeal flour depending on the amount of the husk included (I think). So is cake flour like "plain flour" or "self raising flour". I have also seen references to "all purpose flour" - which I assume is plain flour but may be wrong.

Jackies tells me that "sweet milk" isn't milk with sugar it just isn't buttermilk. I don't know why we don't seem to use buttermilk here, I never see it in the shops. I know that it is popular in Ireland.

I think that we have the same problem as you in making good french bread. I think that the better shops import the flour from France as our flour just doesn't come out right.

Next time I come back from America, I'm bound to have the drugs squad going through my bags. They will be full of white powdery stuff that I want to try out at home!


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#3150 - 11/10/00 01:07 AM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
wsieber Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
A wise man in France told me in the year 1967, and it stuck in my memory: "la politique est la sauce à laquelle on nous met pour nous manger"


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#3151 - 11/10/00 02:52 PM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
Growing up in a "blended" family (Cinderella's wicked "blended"mother?), in which only one parent had a passion for Indian foods, such delights were rare. Hence I am constantly tormented by the delicious aromas that pervade the homes of my subcontintental friends and acquaintances. I am also a big fan of the late Freddie Mercury.In homage to both of these interests, I proffer the folowing, which I received some time ago, from a source now forgotten. As you read it, please sing it to yourself, to the tune of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody
Subject: INDIAN CURRY RHAPSODY


Naan, just killed a man
poppadom against his head
Had lime pickle now he's dead.
Naan, dinner's just begun
But now I'm gonna crap it all away.
Naan, ooh, ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry
Seen nothing yet just see the loo tomorrow
Curry on, curry on
Cause nothing really Madras.
Too late, my dinner's gone
Sends shivers down my spine
Rectum aching all the time
Goodbye onion bhaji, I've got to go
Gotta leave you all behind and use the loo.
Naan, ooh, ooh
This doopiaza is so mild
I sometimes wish we'd never come here at all.
<<guitar solo>>
I see a little chicken tikka on the side
Rogan Josh, Rogan Josh, pass the chutney made of mango
Vindaloo does nicely
Very very spicy
Meat!
Byriani (Byriani)
Byriani (Byriani)
Byriani and a naan
(A vindaloo loo loo loo)
I've eaten balti, somebody help me
He's eaten balti, get him to the lavatory
Stand you well back
'Case the loo is quarantined...
Here it comes
There it goes
Technicolor yawn
I chunder
No!
It's coming up again
(There he goes)
I chunder, it's coming back again (There he goes)
Coming back again (up again)
Here it comes again.
(No no no no no no NO)
On my knees, I'm on my knees
On his knees, Oh, there he goes
This vindaloo
Is about to wreck my guts
Poor me.. poor me...poor meee!
<<guitar solo
So you think you can chunder and then feel alright?
So you try to eat curry and drink beer all night?
Oh maybe, But now you'll puke like a baby
Just had to come out
It just had to come right out in here.
<<guitar solo>>
[slow bit}
Korma, sag or bhuna
bhaji, balti or naan
Nothing makes a difference
Nothing makes a difference
To meee....
Anyway, the wind blows....shshshsh


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#3152 - 11/10/00 03:03 PM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
MAX, that is utterly disGUSTing, she said, after picking herself up off the floor from laughing so hard!
Beats "On Top of Spaghetti" all to 'pieces'!


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#3153 - 11/10/00 08:10 PM Re: Nostalgia trip here...
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
> Ahhh... brings back the memories of nayya dosa and podi. (Do they have that in
> Bangalore, Avy?)

Sorry shanks, I am always late in on everything. No, we don't get Nayya Dosas in the restaurants here. We get Appams. Appams and hot mutton stew is what many Bangaloreans go out to eat as their Sunday breakfast (Heavy - yes, but delicious!). In Kerala you get toddy Appams, the taste of which is of the heavens.

Max : I laughed a lot, but was that Farookh who just stirred?





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#3154 - 11/12/00 11:59 AM Re: Bohemian Masala
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
I loved your Bohemian Masala, Max. I've circulated to some fo my friends (I'll let you know if they are still speaking to me). It fits the tune so well!


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#3155 - 11/14/00 01:45 AM Re: Sorry, politics again
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
Oy, you gents were not privy to the ballots drawn up by Québec`s ruling party for our referendums (an election type vote system where the population is polled for their opinion)

For some twenty years, the Parti Québécois (do NOT call them the Québec Party as they will all stone you to death - and your children too - for translating a French name into English) has been trying to convince the Québec population that it would be in their best interests to separate from Canada.
In order to confuse the people in general, and the older generation in particular (most being nationalists), the referendum votes - known as "The Questions" are generally phrased something like this...

"do you not agree with a possibility that can perhaps be considered that we hold a discussion as to the situation of Québec"

Yes or no.

It can take months just to get them to word the question in a bit of a clearer fashion.



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#3156 - 11/14/00 09:58 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Flour-- Read Joy of Cooking (cookbook) chapter on Know your ingredients About flour.
All purpose flour is just that, generally good for most things.
Soft (or Cake flour) is flour that has been milled from a "soft" variety of wheat
Bread Flour is milled from "hard" wheat.
Gluten, a protein of wheat is what defines hard and soft. For Bread, you want gluten, it forms the elastic structure that the yeast works against, and allows the bread to rise. It also give the bread is nice chewy texture.
For cake, you don't want nice chewy texture, you want tender crumbs, for the cake to just hold together. Two factors at work, low gluten and low agitation (you don't "knead" a cake or even mix it for 10 or 15 minutes, as you do with bread)

Winter wheat (wheat sown in the fall, that winters over, and is harvest early in the spring) tend to be a hard wheat. Wondra flour, which is sold in a canister, and marketed as being perfect for thickening gravy and sause, is the the hardest wheat. if you just take some samples, and feel the flour, (cake, all purpose, bread and Wondra) you can actually feel that some flour is softer. Face powder used to be made from (and still often is) wheat flour. if you put some cake flour in you hands, and feel it, and then some wondra, you would quickly realize, you'd want cake flour for your face! you can feel the softness.

And as for buttermilk, you can in most american stores buy small cans of dried powdered buttermilk. It need to be refrigerated after opening, (just like powdered whole milk), but it stays usable for 6 month to a year.

and since this is a word site, and not a cooking class, here is an interesting tidbit, the word Knead is related to the word Lady-- but i don't remember all the detail of the relationship. (this little fact was also in Joy of Cooking!) perhaps some one with a reference library at hand can assist.

_________________________
my other obsession

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#3157 - 11/14/00 10:12 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
> the word Knead is related to the word Lady

submitted without further comment:

ME lady, lavedi, lafji from OE hlæfdige, from hlaf (bread) + dige (from root of a prehistoric word meaning to knead); akin to OE dæge - maid, kneader of bread


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#3158 - 11/14/00 11:36 AM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
thank you tsuwm! I was always the lady of my house, and baked all the bread.

Of course its easy to be a lady in this country, since in america even a char woman can be a cleaning lady!


_________________________
my other obsession

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#3159 - 11/14/00 01:00 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
Thnaks for the information.

As I want to bring some flour home with me I just thought I'd check out your advice. First, I buy flour and put it in small plastic bags, so it doesn't explode everywhere. Then I rub some cake flour over my face (to check I have the right one) and then I go through customs. I'm sure it will be fine.

I am a little worried by US Customs. I travelled back though the Canadian border once. There was a big sign telling people not to make any jokes. Then they started askign me lots of questions about fruit - very strange. I had to eat the apple I was carrying before I was allowed in. Are Canadian apples all that bad? Oh well I suppose it only takes one bad apple.


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#3160 - 11/14/00 01:32 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
xara Offline
member

Registered: 10/09/00
Posts: 197
Loc: cary, nc, usa
I had to eat the apple I was carrying before I was allowed in.

I saw a documentary once about US Customs and Agriculture. They were standing in the airport with a dog who was specifically trained to smell out sausage, among other agricultural products, to prevent foreign crop related diseases from comming into the country. I don't remember why sausage was so bad though. I'm sure if you met that lady and that dog, they wouldn't have let you take your flour with you.


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#3161 - 11/14/00 02:56 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
so the moral of the story is this: it's not just fruit they're blocking, it's just that the typical traveler is more likely to be carrying the casual fruit (no pun!) than vegetables or (say) bags of white stuff disguised as flour.


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#3162 - 11/14/00 03:22 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Sausage is banned because we american are so afraid of diseases*, that certain type meats that have been smoked, but not cooked are considered raw, and raw meat could carry diseases-- so its banned, customs to be honest, they will let you take most any thing out--except weird stuff--Cadilac Coupe de ville, ie, Its when you want to bring stuff in they object. So no problem leaving the US with flour-- just don't bring English flour here!
*as an aside, our being parinoid has some use, since USDA blocked british beef right at the start of BSE.

Coming from a irish family, i did get raised on smuggling stories, (how relations smuggled canadian fur coats into Ireland, sans tax and Irish whiskey into England, during WWII) and i smuggled (well i packed it in a suitcase, and forgot to declare it) a 10lb Ham into Japan!

Its not just US customs-- try driving into California with out of state plates.
Its a scene right out of grapes of wrath. the california authorities stop your car and inspect it-- to make sure your not bringing contraband!

_________________________
my other obsession

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#3163 - 11/14/00 03:36 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
Marty Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
> the word Knead is related to the word Lady

A Lady Kneads a Gentleman like a Fish Kneads a Bicycle?


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#3164 - 11/14/00 05:46 PM Re: Now in "Smello-vision"
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
Jo, I had the same problem driving down to the States on a weekend spree. The border guard specifically asked if we were trying to smuggle in oranges?!?! We can’t even grow oranges in Canada. It’s too cold. Plus, we get all our oranges from the U.S. I though maybe you guys just didn’t want them back .


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