|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
Can the word "be" ever be substituted for the word "is", as in :
"She be coming"
Is this archaism, colloquialism, or just not anything at all?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
"She be coming"
Is this archaism, colloquialism,
Hmmmmm, a holdover from the earlier English that came to us in the 1700s and is still used in more remote pockets of habitation ?
Phrases similar to "she be" are sometimes heard in old Bluegrass Music that are based on early English songs.
Musick : can you help us out here?
Would this be a colloquialism ? I don't think that'd be the exact appelation?
And how'd you contract "she be?" She'b ????
Oh,dear! another disappointment from Enigma ..thought it'd want esoteric Sheba for "she'b" but instead got plain old "she'd." [sigh]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 36
newbie
|
|
newbie
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 36 |
I'm sure I've heard "she be" following such words as lest,
if, though, etc., although I be hard pressed to come up with one at the moment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
This is also quite common in African-American Vernacular English, sometimes called Ebonics. This is pretty controversial an' I ain't gonna comment on it (unless provoked, maybe  ), except to provide you with an example and some links: I think the be form establishes long-term as in: "she staying" = temporary or immediate: she's staying there at the moment. "she be staying": she lives (in that neighborhood) the origin of the Ebonics issue: http://www.linguistlist.org/topics/ebonics/ebonics-res1.htmla discussion of it: http://www.stanford.edu/~rickford/ebonics/LingAnthro1.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 157
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 157 |
It is imperative that you be there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
i could be wrong, but my immediate feeling is that "be"
can substitute for "is" when the "will" is omitted.
"he'll be down the pub, most likely"
means the same as
"he's down the pub, most likely"
and
"he be down the pub, most likely"
what francais posted was a subjunctive (if i be correct), so perhaps omitting the "will" inflection gives a more potential rather than definite feel to the phrase.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
WOW - Sorry, someday I'll have access to my music library again. Thanks for the links AnnaS.
Although now familiar with the context in which Ebonics had "surfaced" then and some of the issues, I know first hand that the language they are speaking of is not African-American specific. Here I hear the same "useages" from Latin-Americans as well as Euro-Americans, with the exception of some Slavic-American groups who isolate themselves geographically as well as allow their language to continue to do so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
>that "be" can substitute for "is" when the "will" is omitted.
Then is the phrase "Life be silent" necessarily an order and should be punctuated:
"Life be Silent!"
Or can it be other things?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
In the Hamshire and Dorset dialects (and presumably several others in UK) as well as "ee be" you find "I be" instead of "I am", as in:
Be I Hampshire? Be I buggery,
I comes up from Wareham,
Where all the girls wear calico drawers,
and I knows 'ow to tear 'em.
In Bristol area dialect, you find "ee" used for "you" as in:
"Why duzn't ee speak proper, if ee cuz ee duzn't ut"
(Why don't you speak properly. If you could you wouldn't, would you?)
If you listen hard enough you will find people saying anything!
Rod
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
In Standard W(ritten, hite) English (hereinafter abbreviated SWE) there are two main issues here.
A) Be can be the infinitive (yes, Virginia, there are forms of the infinitive in which the to is absent as it is in this sentence (the third word in this sentence to be specific).
2) It can also be an example of the subjunctive in what is known in Latin grammar (valid here for English also) as the hortatory subjunctive, often used with the periphrastic let. This is the normal form of the polite command. Other examples of the subjunctive would be if he be here he can defend himself. This use of the subjunctive normally requires that the clause in which the subjunctive is used is known to be contrary to fact. Thus, if it is known that he is here or if it is not known whether he is or not, the proper usage would be If he is here he can defend himself
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
"Life be Silent!"
shouldn't that be punctuated:
"Life, be silent!"?
unless it's some kind of subjunctive that faldage
just went into and which i'll try
to understand over the next few weeks!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
"Life be Silent!"
An admonition ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
william comments: some kind of subjunctive that faldage just went into and which i'll try to understand over the next few weeks!
And I thought I was being perfectly clear. Ah, well; as they say, "The only thing thats *perfectly clear is a vacuum."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428 |
Other examples of the subjunctive would be "if he be here he can defend himself".
At weddings one still occasionally hears "If there be anyone present who knows of any reason these two should not be joined in wedlock, let him* speak now or forever hold his* peace."
Followed, one hopes, by a long and silent pause.
*May be replaced with them/their, I suppose (see other thread).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
shouldn't that be punctuated:
"Life, be silent!"?
My Sweet william, there are people in the States who, when
they say this, would mean what I would say as Life is silent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
shouldn't that be punctuated:
"Life, be silent!"?
My Sweet william, there are people in the States who, when they say this, would mean what I would say as Life is silent.
Jackie, yeah but that would be *without the comma (see Ebonics post above). With the comma, as William correctly punctuated it, the sentence becomes imperative (as in "be quiet!").
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
>shouldn't that be punctuated:
>"Life, be silent!"?
The sentence had no comma which is why I thought "be" meant "is" and wondered whether it could.
Maybe they just forgot the comma.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Avy, I meant what you meant.  You be correct.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Flatlander comments At weddings one still occasionally hears "If there be anyone present who knows of any reason these two should not be joined in wedlock, let him* speak now or forever hold his* peace."
Followed, one hopes, by a long and silent pause.
Completely off topic, when a friend of ours married another friend some twenty-odd years ago, we "friends" formed a conspiracy. When the minister asked the question above, we coughed, muttered and shuffled and looked around "guiltily". Got a laugh, anyway.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
speak now or forever hold his* peace
Further to CK's story, there is an apocryphal story concerning a guy getting married, who had been guilty of many severe practical jokes at his friends stag nights and weddings. He told none of his friends about his own wedding, fearing some terrible reprisals. All went well until the minister asked the question "Does anyone know any just cause or impediment..?" etc.. A voice from the back of the church boomed out "I do!", and the whole congregation turned in shock to watch the protester make his way slowly up the length of the aisle to the bride and groom. Having arrived, he stared first at the bride and then at the groom and said "Dreadfully sorry, wrong church" and made his way out again.
Rod
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,328
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
1,181
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
