|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
'Wer keine fremde Sprache spricht,
kennt seine Muttersprache nicht.'
J.W.v.Goethe
Roughly translated:
'He who speaks no foreign language,
does not know his mother tongue'
Do you think he wrote that intended for those who wish to study their own language in depth without studying others, or did he mean it in more general sense?
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
I have to admit to a more general interest in the correct pronunciation of 'Goethe'. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"Do you think he wrote that intended for those who wish to study their own language in depth without studying others, or did he mean it in more general sense?"
It seems clear to me that he meant you cannot truly study your mother tongue in depth without studying others as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
'He who speaks no foreign language,
does not know his mother tongue'
I sometimes get a mild chuckle out of people who belittle the notion of travelling great distances to "discover oneself". If one were to grow up in some compact community, such as South Lyon, MI, in the '50s, where everyone knew everyone else and the whole community was the whole universe, one wouldn't necessarily know where one ended and the rest of the community began. If one then traveled to, say, San Francisco in the '60s and then on to Morocco in the '70s and beyond, only then would one begin to understand who or what oneself was.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
'He who speaks no foreign language, does not know his mother tongue'
I understood it to mean that one needs a comparitive language to highlight the mechanisms and assumptions in one's own language. What seems natural and "god-given" becomes worthy of investigation when other ways are shown to be equally valid (or widely held). This is also true of political, cultural, religeous and social systems.
What may be of interest is how different should the other language be to be of best use in teaching us more about our own language. Are there particular languages which are best suited for this job? (On English would it be Latin, Klingon?) Or can we get the best instruction from a range of languages? My own natural inclination is the latter with no real evidence except that I know I have learnt something from each language I have been exposed to.
Rod
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I thought BY's original post to this thread was the start of a badly scanned limerick, something like: "A spotty young thinker named Goethe Was in love with his wife, wouldn't hurt 'er ... " etc. As for travelling to find oneself, I've looked everywhere else, so I'm now trying the USA for a few weeks, although actually(r) I believe I'll stumble over my sorry ass somewhere in Britain ... The use of languages as a basis for the understanding of one's own is probably the reason that foreign languages such as French and German are taught in schools in Zild. Since the general standard of language teaching is so low, it's hard to believe that they actually expect you to be able to use the language conversationally! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
Since the general standard of language teaching is so low, it's hard to believe that they actually expect you to be able to use the language conversationally! Then I guess I was truly lucky. My German teachers were all very good at their job, and managed to impart a passion for the language of Goethe. It was from reading the blurb on one of them that I learned that "MA Hons. Cantab" did not stand for Canterbury, but Cambridge.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
BY, I think he meant you can't study your own language without studying others (and - by extension - you can't know your own language well without studying it)
BTW, I always wondered why Goethe went for the e in lieu of the umlaut.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I agree with Rod. When I took up French, I learned more about English than I had ever known. [rant]I would like to add that that Europe's-pants-off or whatever thread is all "Greek" to me. Thank you-all so much for providing me with a whole screen of meaningless posts.  [/rant]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
|
|
member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
In a comedy show on the CBC several years ago a Mountie is being sent undercover to investigate a group promoting English only. The commissioner asks him some questions to test his understanding of the issues involved.
Q: Sargeant, what do you call someone who speaks 3 languages?
A: Tri-lingual, sir.
Q: What about someone who speaks 2 languages?
A: Bilingual, sir.
Q: Someone who speaks one language?
A: Anglo-Saxon, sir.
My experience has been the same as Jackie's, speaking French has given me new insight into the origin of English words. (e.g. One the came up the other day: valid means able-bodied in French - hence invalid for someone who is not.) German, as well, gives many clues to the origins of our language and it gives me satisfaction to be able to read and understand something in the original language.
The quote that started this thread can, in my opinion, be taken to be a specific reference language or to the culture in general, as is your want, because you can't learn a language without getting at least some idea of the culture behind it. When you learn something about a different culture it makes you to think about how your culture deals with the same issue. For instance, in France you are guilty until proven innocent. Is that worse or better than systems based on the British tradition? You learn more about yourself and your beliefs by comparing and contrasting with others.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,372
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
381
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
