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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
It is coincidental that you should point out the distinctions between burglary and larceny, wow, since I've recently been thinking about the migration of meanings among various classes of crime and how they occur. I would add to your burglary/larceny/theft discussion the term "robbery". And because I know that you all are endlessly fascinated:
Burglary: per the old common law, the breaking and entering another's dwelling at night with the intent to commit a felony; per modern usage, breaking and entering any building with the intent to commit a felony
Larceny: the unlawful taking and carrying away of someone else's personal property with the intent to deprive the possessor of it permanently
Robbery: the illegal taking of property from the person of another, or in the person's presence, by violence or intimidation
Theft: the felonious taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of depriving the true owner of it; broadly, it includes any instance of stealing, including larceny, burglary, embezzlement and false pretenses.
Now, what I've been contemplating specifically is the use and misuse of "assault."
Assault: the threat of use of force on another which causes that person to have a reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact
Assault means a threat of use of force, but is often used to indicate an application of force. The actual (hi tsuwm!) application of force is "battery."
Battery: the application of force to another, resulting in harmful or offensive contact
Often, of course, the two offenses occur together (first the threat, then the fulfillment of the threat), and so people are used to hearing the offenses paired, but a charge of "assault and battery" reflects two crimes, not one. But I think that the real source of confusion between assault and battery arises from the practice of the media (and police?) to term a rape an "assault." This practice apparently arose from a social aversion to acknowledging the existence of the crime of rape - it just wasn't fit for public discussion, and so rapes came to be reported with the euphemism "assault." Now, people think that an assault encompasses a physical attack rather than the threat of attack. And now, Webster’s first three definitions of "assault" are (1) a sudden violent attack, (2) an unlawful physical attack, and (3) rape.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Legal definitions
Thank you, Counsellor Sparteye, for this discussion, particularly for mentioning the fact that burglary, in its strict definition, is committed only at night; during the day, it's b&e. Mystery/crime writers have often pointed this out. Dr. Watson, in chronicling his and Holmes' exploits wrote in The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton something to the effect that they forced the door to Milverton's house (it being then late at night), stepped through and thereby become felons in the eyes of the law. Actually, as Holmes mentioned earlier in the story, they were already committing a criminal act by being on the public streets at night in possession of burglars' tools.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
As I remember this one (from the radio transcription) Inspector Lestrade asked Holmes's help in solving the case. Holmes begged off, citing a case involving a giant rat of Sumatra that had been spotted at the waterfront. In his begging off he noted that the description of the suspects that Lestrade had could quite well apply to Watson and himself.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,065 |
What fascinates me is the imbalance between the nouns for the crimes Sparteye cites and the corresponding verbs:
Burglar = Burgle/Burglarize
Larceny = ? (Commit larceny is the best I can do)
Robbery = rob (somebody (of something))
Theft = Thieve (It feels intransitive to me (They thieved for a living), but I'm open to other opinions)
So where does "steal" fit in? Steal (something (from somebody)).
Bingley
Bingley
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addict
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addict
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Burglary:Burgle/Burglarize::Larceny:Steal
IMHO
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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glar7b%r4gl!r8 Dr. Bill, please! There are "ladies" present! 
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes but, the other pairs are obviously connected, so why is there no noun for steal, other than the gerund stealing?
Bingley
Bingley
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old hand
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old hand
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Certainly it is a deviation from the normal behaviour. Here I disagree: In the expression "Off we go" the idea of a start is clearly reflected. Also in talking about an explosive charge, going off describes the fulfillment of its normal purpose 
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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maybe because there are so many slang words for stealing-- "cop" ("Did you buy that lipstick or cop it?") was one i learned in my teens-- and is (was) used in UK with the say meaning--but more common, it seems in the UK is knick- ( recast sentence above with knick)-- and most everyone in US would understand stole or shoplifted. Five finger discount, lift (ed), and the NY favorite--"It fell off the truck"-- and to the other ways of speaking about stealing... and i am sure there are other words and phrases i have forgotten... If Sparteye deals with the criminal courts, i am sure she will have heard other terms...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
A favorite word for "unlawful acquisition" in WWII was "liberate". The Nazis were not alone in this deplorable activity.
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