|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
I am querying some established research on a detail of ‘aspect’ usage, and would love to hear from my USn friends on these two questions: 1. If you were reporting on having attended an exhibition last summer, what sentence would you choose as your most natural style of usage? (eg, like saying ‘I went to the ball game…’ or whatever comes naturally) 2. If someone had kept you waiting for a meeting outside a shop, say, what sort of construction would you use if reproving them about their final arrival (please incorporate a variant of those last two words) This is part of some research for a linguistics course, dealing with a variation between British and American standard usage, so your responses would be much appreciated. TIA 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
1. If you were reporting on having attended an exhibition last summer, what sentence would you choose as your most natural style of usage? (eg, like saying ‘I went to the ball game...’ or whatever comes naturally)
I went to a ball game at Wrigley while I was in Chicago last June...
I was at a seminar on linguistic differences between British and American English when I...
2. If someone had kept you waiting for a meeting outside a shop, say, what sort of construction would you use if reproving them about their final arrival (please incorporate a variant of those last two words)
Well, I hope we didn't rush your (breakfast, lunch, whatever) [sarcastic tone of voice]
Well, it's about time you got here. I was about to send out Search and Rescue.
I'll get more as I think of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
1. If you were reporting on having attended an exhibition last summer, what sentence would you choose as your most natural style of usage? (eg, like saying ‘I went to the ball game…’ or whatever comes naturally)
i tend to think of an exhibition as specific to one collection, eg the Tutankhamen exhibition that passed through Los Angeles when i was a wee one. On that premise, i'd say "I saw an exhibition last summer"
2. If someone had kept you waiting for a meeting outside a shop, say, what sort of construction would you use if reproving them about their final arrival (please incorporate a variant of those last two words)
As a matter of common courtesy, I would be loath to reprove anyone who had kept me waiting (if they had any manners, they'd have apologized upon their eventual arrival, thus obviating my need to point it out; and if they had not the proper breeding as to proffer an apology, i would not presume to take it upon myself to embark on that endeavor).
That being said, i have never found myself in the situation where i would be called upon to reprove someone for being late, since [regrettably] it is *always* me who arrives late. Hypothetically, i suppose i would simply say "I'm sorry your late arrival will force me to keep this meeting brief, as i have other commitments this afternoon".
~b
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
(1) I went to the exhibition last summer. (spoken or informal writing) (2) My most natural expressions to someone arriving late who is a good friend with whom I could joke would be, "It's about time!" or "Finally!" I keep stumbling over your term, "final arrival." It sounds like the guy's corpse has been delivered. (for tsuwm ->) GO GREEN!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
1. I went to a leather and chains exhibition last week.
2a. Took you long enough to get here! (to someone familiar and good-natured enough not to be affronted by this, since it's not polite, or you don't care if they are affronted and you're ready to duck when they swing)
2b. Goodness, what held you up? (more polite)
2c. [Grandma, Auntie, Boss], did your [leg, cab driver, some other factor] hold you up? (about as polite as you can get -- there really is no polite way to reprove someone for mere tardiness)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
1a) yesterday I went to the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices to meet my double agent.
1b) last week I attended a software engineering seminar.
2) finally, you've arrived! {including variant of "final arrival" as best I could :-)}
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Sure, Sweetie!
1. I went to the State Fair last summer.
Possibly might say I attended a judicial hearing, but definitely my most nat. usage is I went to. I prolly wouldn't say I attended a Louisville Orchestra concert most of the time, though it would be my second choice.
2.You finally made it.(to a friend)
I was beginning to worry that something might have happened to you. (to an acquaintance--sorry, I could not bring myself to add "to make you so late"--I know you asked for those words.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
you're basic line is pretty standard-- but alot of times i'd say things like:
I caught the new jazz group at the Natural History last week-- great show! (actually i did catch a jazz group at the museum-- and it ruined my visit-- Sorry JazzO-- to me jazz is just noise.)
Or
Several years ago, there was an exhibit on the dead sea scrolls-- I took a trip to DC especially to see the exhibit as it started the US tour-- My daughter caught the show when it came to NY, and my son included viewing the exhibit as part of his trip to Rome
If i were speaking, i would make an effort not to say I went to DC, my daughter went to NYC, and my son went to rome -- and all three of us saw the same exhibition! to many wents
and as for commenting on being late-- well as other have said-- depends on Who-- but with friends
Here! at last! I gave you up for dead!
or
Oh, you got here 15 minutes early! Oh, no wait, I'm wrong-- we are not meeting at 3 o'clock Chicago time (central time)! (i am in eastern time zone)
Neither uses a term that is varient of "final arrival"-- tsuwm's "Finally! you arrived!" is about the only way that seems about right..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137 |
I'm always the one who is late, I'll try and listen to what's said to me next time. The only one who would be later than I would be my son, to him I'd say "Why are you so late (in getting here) ?" (That final arrival part is throwing me.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
1) I went to the show (I never go to the show...(movies)) - or - We/I attended anything "serious"  - or - often, starting the sentence with what we were doing there... "I was eating popcorn at the game yesterday".... however, I, personally, would never start with an a-matter-of-fact statement like "I went to the pub last night. Within minutes of my arrival... more like "I was hanging out at the pub when out of nowhere this... 2) To someone I don't know, I won't say anything and let them explain themselves... To someone I know, however... -Glad you could join me/us... -Where the f*** have you been? -Run out of gas? -You're late, as*****!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
1) I went to a woodworking seminar last summer.
2) To a friend: It`s about time you got here, I was freezing my buns off.
....To a date: [silence and chirping cricket emoticon as I have already left]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
If you were reporting on having attended an exhibition last summer, what sentence would you choose as your most natural style of usage?
"I heard the Pops at the Esplanade last summer."
"I went to Boston MFA for the photography exhibit last week."
The verb would depend on the occasion : music= I heard; paintings= I saw; baseball game or another athletic event = I went to.
2. If someone had kept you waiting for a meeting outside a shop, say, what sort of construction would you use if reproving them about their final arrival (please incorporate a variant of those last two words)
When a teen I learned that since I try very hard to be on time and others are sometimes delayed I always arrange to meet somewhere comfy, if wait I must!
It would be up to the late arrival to offer an explanation for being tardy.
I would probably say : "I ordered tea, sit down and catch your breath."
However, if I was really upset, and the meeting was important, and time for it was short, and I knew the person very well, or it was someone I was paying, or it was a family member I would smile (or frown if they were more than 15 minutes late) and say : "What kept you?" while sipping my tea.
"Final arrrival" does not feel comfortable to this American ear in the circumstances you set forth. More suited to a funeral!
wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 52
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 52 |
If event I attended last week was basically visual..."I saw that show, game, etc." Or "I played tennis last week".
"I went shopping last week...went to doctor...went to a board meeting, etc"
For late arrivals..." I was beginniing to worry about you" if a friend. Or if business meeting just say "We'd better get started now." Or something like that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
1) a) "I went to the game." b) "We heard Beethoven last night;" variant -- "We saw Beethoven last night."
2) "Where've you been?!" (But usually nothing.) or, as I said to my friend I___ last week, "Only you could have been later than I was tonight!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
Thanks very much, peeps. Just *dandy I guess what I was thinking of with (2) was - which would you find came more naturally of these options? 2.1 So you have finally arrived! 2.2 So you finally arrived! If you cannot imagine using either, fair enough. I spect there's something in your constitution about that
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428 |
I'm trying to do this without thinking about it too much:
1. I went to the Super Bowl last year. I saw the Van Gogh exhibit while I was in town.
2. final arrival (please incorporate a variant of those last two words) Not sure about that bit, but: Finally! I wasn't sure you would ever arrive! (Normally I'd say "show up" or "get here" instead of "arrive.")
Hope it helps,
Flatlander
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Definitely 2.2
Wouldn't use have here. Probably if we used the 2.1 construction it has become So you've finally arrived and the 've has merged with the f and become lost. I also think that US'ns wouldn't normally use that phrase at all
But note: So you've come at last. and not *So you came at last
Pretty much go along with everybody else on 1. I think you've got a good cross section of US'n's usage here.
And Note: The * in my note above indicates "improper" (in the Safiric sense; If it sounds funny the hell with it) usage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Oh, now I understand what you were after. I'd say, "You finally got here". No have. Under certain circumstances, say I was waiting to introduce a belated speaker to an audience, I might say, "Oh good, you're here". ARE, not have (come). Nobody "arrives" where I am--someone can arrive at their destination--as long as that destination is not my location. This isn't a rule or anything. But I, and every person I know here, would think it odd to be told, "you have arrived" or "you finally arrived". Even when someone was telling me about a trip, I'd be more likely to say, "Did you get there on time?" than, "Did you arrive on time?". But if your research must include the word arrive, then it would be "You finally arrived". Hope this helps, Sweetie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Ahhhh. I see.
Well, like Jackie and most, I would never use the word arrived in Enlish to mean get there. I have heard arrived used to mean somebody has finally made a success of himself/herself after a lot of hard work. As in..."she has finally arrived."
In French we would definitely say, C'est à peu près temps que tu arrives / it is about time you arrived...when somebody has kept you waiting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 76
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 76 |
If it's a big art exhibition that everyone is aware of (I hang in the NYC art world), I might say "I did the VanGogh at the Met yesterday." Otherwise I'd say "I saw the Van Gogh exhibition at the Met yesterday."
If someone's late, whether I commented at all would depend on how late, and what our relationship was. I might say, "What's up?" or I might say "Did I confuse our meeting time? I thought we were meeting at 3:00." This way if there really was confusion and not just tardiness I haven't accused someone unnecessarily.
I just wouldn't use "finally" or "arrive." But given the two choices you suggested, I guess I'd use 2.2.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
variant -- "We saw Beethoven last night."
What'd you do, exhume him?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
What'd you do, exhume him? Please! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I think they rolled him over [walkin away whistling emoticon]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
What was brown, and found on the piano bench?
Beethoven's last movement.
[ready for the onslaught emoticon]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
... and the smell that's lingering is Jackie decomposing ...
[ready for my own funeral emoticon]
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
["ahem" e] Mav, Helen of Troy brought this up over in the icon thread, but want to make sure you (and all other interested folks, which is probably the large majority of y'all) see it: the April issue of Harper's magazine carries an essay by David Foster Wallace called "Tense Present: Democracy, English and the Wars Over Usage." Indeed, as Helen mentioned, it is lengthy and footnote-filled (which the magazine points out with glee) but it looks like some juicy reading. The essay's hook is Garner's A Dictionary of Modern American Usage (Oxford Univ. Press), which I haven't seen yet but plan on finding. Wallace warns us that offering counsel on the finer points of U.S. English is Preaching to the Choir (i.e. nobody's gonna be interested except those of us who read William Safire's column on language in the Sunday NYTimes magazine, for example) but oh, well, noblesse oblige, I guess. Can you get Harper's over there in the Old Country?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
No chance of my seeing the essay unless it's online, but Garner's work did get a review by Tom McArthur in English Today for October 1999, and then a reply to the review from Garner in the October 2000 issue (it's a quarterly by the way, so the gap isn't as large as it might seem).
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
"..exhume him?"
If the string that followed this was the awful one I think it was, I would like to say for the record that I did not give the idiotic usage as an example of what *I* would say or ever have, but as a something I'd heard often enough along the way to make me numb or vomit, depending on my then current state of wellness.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 137 |
Just to be difficult and prove myself a member of the crowd Ayleu. I'd have to say I'd say "You've finally arrived". I wouldn't say have but I'd definetely have the 've in there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I bought the magazine yestereve and took it in with me to my standard Thursday bar restaurant. I got about two pages in to the article and had to leave because I was frightening the other customers and the hired help with my constant guffawing. Just a sample. The author claims to be a SNOOT from a family of SNOOTs (approximately 70% of his family claim the label). SNOOT may be interpreted as either Sprachgefühl Necessitates Our Ongoing Tendance or Syntax Nudniks Of Our Time depending on whether or not the interpreter is a SNOOT.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
Have to see if I can get a copy - otherwise I'll just have to flutter my eyelashes at one of my USn pals... Thanks, very much, for all your contributions, folks - it's been a really useful exercise for my purposes.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,373
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
1 members (wofahulicodoc),
166
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
