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I find that Turkish is a very smooth language to listen to. The ups aren't as high and the downs aren't as low. The consonants are less harsh. So when my Turkish friends swear in English - and all the English swears depend on their harshness for effect (e. g. SHIT! F***!) - they sound really funny spoken with Turkish "softness" of the consonants! 
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The musicality of language may also have nothing to do with music per se.
In formal English, the rhythm patterns formed by the words, and intonation, or the rise and fall in pitch by the speaker, as well as the speed and volume, and the deliberate use of silence for contrast, all can be as complicated as a Bach work.
I once coached a young man who was competing in an oratorical contest. His main opponent, we knew, was another youngster who had a very dramatic declamatory style. My man tended to a quieter, more elegiac delivery, which we were afraid would be swamped by comparison with the other young man. I decided he needed to pump up his delivery and to help him do that, we took his script and marked it up, using musical notations like the < and > signs for crescendo and decrescendo, also lines and arrows to indicate rises in pitch, etc. He won.
Poetry is, of course, more musical than prose, although prose like Thomas Cranmer's Book of Common Prayer is hard to beat. Among my favorite poems are Baudelaire's Harmonie du Soir and the Petrarch sonnet which begins, "Di monte in monte, di pensier in pensier". If that's not music, I don't know what is. And language like that has to be read out loud to be appreciated.
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I have found that the iambic pentameter to be rat-a-tat (by eastern standards). Eastern languages (of the sub continent) are fluid. And often while speaking the English language I look for that kind of fluidity. And find myself creating it in my speaking of English. Sometimes it ends up being grammatically incorrect. (Like for example I was pulled up by a friend for using "that which" as tautology. But I needed an extra word in my sentence to fill up a space.) I guess that is how the language becomes varied because foreign speakers of the language change it to fill in prescriptions that exist in their own language.
Also a question :
If a pentameter is made up of five metrical feet, what is a line made up of 5 ½ feet - i.e 11 beats called? There must be a name because didn't the original Petrarchan sonnet have 11 beats?
And what is the scansion of a 11 syllable line of a Petrarchan sonnet? Thanks.
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OK - I've waited long enough...  WOW - "Has anyone else noticed that each language has it's own musicality? Rhythm if you will? - You bet! Aligning lyrics to music, just one of my favourite endeavors, is filled with the discovery of what is musical about language - both rhythmically and melodically. (Of course this says nothing about the effect of music on meaning after doing so!)"Any singers among us who perhaps have had similar problems with American or English lyrics translated into another language?" - I have very little experience with translating from English, however, translating to English always leaves certain 'holes' for which there is no word(s) to 'fill'. I would imagine it is the same the other way around. In performance, as well as analysis, music seems to be dictating (to a certain degree) how successful a language communicates through it as well as each language seemingly dictating (to a certain degree) what music will be best at not obfuscating its intent. (ps. I assume by "Tempo C" you mean 'common time' or 4/4 (ie. "Time Signature")"...no two hearers get exactly the same message" I'll save this one for another time There is no doubt that composers work within a certain "sonic comfort" which their "mother tongue" has embedded into the way they hear (and listen). This is one of the obvious ways language exposes its own musicality. Actually (tsuwm-registered trademark), there is nothing obvious about it... except most people I know who know very little about music theory, per se, will guess correctly the "nationality of a composition"; just as they can do with the "nationality of a language", yet not understand a word of it. In formal English, the rhythm patterns formed by the words, and intonation, or the rise and fall in pitch by the speaker, as well as the speed and volume, and the deliberate use of silence for contrast, all can be as complicated as a Bach work. - I'll do my best to leave Bach's "supposed complexities" out of this (for personal reasons)... I agree completely with your post, especially when it comes to the intentional use of silence (one of the key ingredients to communication). I mark up my poetry/prose for accurate performance, just as I would a musical score, and it does make a big difference!"And what is the scansion of a 11 syllable line of a Petrarchan sonnet?..." - I guess I don't have a direct answer to your question... but from my experience... when rhythmic structures become large enough (ie. span a significant length) they naturally become a combination of smaller structures... "naturally" of course meaning "functionally" in this context, whereas, in a context of meaning, longer structures will be required to be successful.[heavy breathing end of rant emoticon]
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Musick, I've been wondering where you've been!
A lovely post, Sweetie--it didn't sound like a rant at all.
I agree with your statements about translation problems, and as has been discussed at length before, the same difficulties occur when poetry is translated. (Also prose,
but I think to a lesser extent because there is more leeway.)
"Sonic comfort"--what a neat term. I was aware of the concept (Tchaikovsky's music most definitely reflects the
"tone" of Mother Russia!), but had not known to name it.
Question--a rest (silence; pause) in music is easy to indicate. How do you do that in a poem, please? Perhaps Avy of the lovely anniversary poem can give some hints on that technique.
One last thing--Bingley, I am once again in awe of your mighty command of language. I had been unconsciously aware, but never named the fact that English is "a stress-timed language". Thank you.
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Because I am ignorant of opera, I was amused a long time ago to read an essay with the epigram "When music was married to immortal verse, she committed a horrible mesalliance." (Being written in my bomb shelter.) One experience I had with opera records still surprises me. Back in the thirties sets of symphonic records were subsidized by a music lovers'group. I got a dozen wonderful symphonies that way,though it meant skipping meals. I also got Bizet's "Carmen" but could not understand a single word even after a dozen playings. Until I could get the libretto, and after one reading, I could understand EVERY word. I can still remember "L'amour est un oiseau rebelle...." Oh, to have my hearing back.
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> Perhaps Avy of the lovely anniversary poem can give some hints on that technique.
Oh god Jackie don't do this to me.. I know nothing authoritative about technique. I am still reading and learning. (The truth not modesty) To try to answer your question my brain stretches as far as the comma. I don't know whether there is more to a pause in poetry than that. My book says there is the Ceasura which is a pause roughly in the middle of a sentence.
>but could not understand a single word even after a dozen playings.
That used to happen to me when I read Urdu poetry. Some words are similar to Hindi and are easily understood but others are very difficult.
Then I realised one can also enjoy words that one has no inkling as to what it means. Partly because it doesn't mean anything - it can mean anything. And also unhampered by its meaning one can concentrate on the physicality of the word. For a while .. then you just switch it off.
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"Question--a rest (silence; pause) in music is easy to indicate. How do you do that in a poem, please? Perhaps Avy of the lovely anniversary poem can give some hints on that technique." - Personally I use a number of different scribblings... the same notation as music does (as I understand within my own perception of tempo (and the tempo of the "work") what that means) - or, like a screenplay, I'll (in parenthesis) write the words "wait two seconds" - or, skipping a line after a period. (this is clearly no paragon )
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(Tchaikovsky's music most definitely reflects the "tone" of Mother Russia!)
Tschaikovsky? Bah, humbug!!! Balakirev, da, Borodin, da, Mussorgsky, da, Glinka, da, Ippolitov-Ivanov, da, often Rimsky-Korsakov, even Prokofiev, but that Muscovite composer of Western music? NYET!!! I will say especially Mussorgsky, who made a deliberate attempt to imitate spoken language in his songs and operas.
The "Mighty Five," as they were sometimes called (Balakirev, Borodin, Cui, R-K and Mussorgsky) banded together to create a truly "Russian" music to counterpoise the Western European influences of that other guy.
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In reply to:
"L'amour est un oiseau rebelle...."
I remember the sniggers when I translated this for an Indonesian audience. Bird (burung) has the same anatomical reference in Indonesian as a particular bird does in English  .
Bingley
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