antepenultimate - Wordsmith.org

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#208810 - 01/08/13 01:04 AM antepenultimate
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 11577 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	I just love this word. Ante is of course before, and ultimate here means final, but what's the purpose/etymology of pen, please?
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#208811 - 01/08/13 01:08 AM Re: antepenultimate [Re: Jackie]
maverick Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/15/00 Posts: 4757	from Latin paene "almost" + ultimus "final" then there's preantepenultimate, and...
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#208816 - 01/08/13 05:25 AM Re: antepenultimate [Re: Jackie]
scribbler101 stranger Registered: 09/05/06 Posts: 8	Have some Madeira, m'Dear! It's really an excellent year. Now if it were gin, you'd be wrong to say yes, The evil gin does would be hard to assess (Besides it's inclined to affect my prowess) Have some Madeira, m'Dear!" Then there flashed though her mind what her mother had said With her antepenultimate breath: "Oh my child, should you look at the wine which is red Be prepared for a fate worse than death!"
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#208818 - 01/08/13 10:36 AM Re: antepenultimate [Re: maverick]
tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Registered: 04/03/00 Posts: 10461 Loc: this too shall pass	Originally Posted By: maverick then there's preantepenultimate, and... you can actually find this used quite a bit in discussions of stress and syllabication/syllabification. but here's my question: preantepenultimate is often defined as 'fourth from last'; why isn't it third from the last? ultimate: last penultimate: next to the last antepenultimate: second? from the last pre~: third? from the last unless, of course you're counting from the 'edge', as in a photo: on the left is.. second from the left.. third from the left
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#208819 - 01/08/13 10:54 AM Re: antepenultimate [Re: maverick]
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 3268 Loc: R'lyeh	from Latin paene "almost" Whence our peninsula (lit. 'almost an island'). _________________________ Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#208841 - 01/08/13 07:41 PM Re: antepenultimate [Re: zmjezhd]
maverick Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/15/00 Posts: 4757	> island faskinating, thanks for that nunc - I had never made that connection (a bridge too far?)
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#208842 - 01/08/13 08:10 PM Re: antepenultimate [Re: tsuwm]
maverick Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/15/00 Posts: 4757	> you can actually find this used quite a bit in discussions of stress and syllabication/syllabification. scene - interior, consultant's room, view of LA thro' window Consultant: So, tell me, what triggers this overwhelming stress? Patient: It’s the syllables, doctor – every time I see antepenultimate I get in a tizzy because I don’t know if they mean fourth from last or third from last! but here's my question: preantepenultimate is often defined as 'fourth from last'; why isn't it third from the last? tsory, didn't mean to ignore your question. We might some of us remember this cropping up from Anu a while ago. It seems to me rather a confusion about what the label means – in other words, “third to last” may sound like it should be three behind the last, but the expression has grown up evidently meaning otherwise: ‘second to last’ commonly is clear as ‘the horse that came in ahead of only one other’ – it was (in this topsy-turvy inverted frame of reference) placed second, surpassed by only one in the race to the bottom. Hm, that’s prolly as clear as mud but.
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#208844 - 01/08/13 08:15 PM Re: antepenultimate [Re: scribbler101]
maverick Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/15/00 Posts: 4757	Originally Posted By: scribbler101 Have some Madeira, m'Dear! It's really an excellent year. Now if it were gin, you'd be wrong to say yes, The evil gin does would be hard to assess (Besides it's inclined to affect my prowess) Have some Madeira, m'Dear!" Thanks for reminding me of Flanders & Swann - underrated, and surely overdue for revival in perhaps a biographically based show...
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#208845 - 01/08/13 08:22 PM Re: antepenultimate [Re: maverick]
tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Registered: 04/03/00 Posts: 10461 Loc: this too shall pass	you want not clear as mud? OED has this for preantepenultimate: That precedes or stands immediately before the antepenult; the last but three.
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#208846 - 01/08/13 08:44 PM Re: antepenultimate [Re: tsuwm]
maverick Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/15/00 Posts: 4757	I think the confusion creeps in when you tried to specify > antepenultimate: second? from the last [e.a.] The common phrase I think is based on an elision: Penultimate is ‘second [compared] to last’ whilst antepenultimate is ‘third to last’, leaving preantepenultimate in ‘fourth to last’ position (or the ‘last excepting three’ as per OED).
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