#208811 - 01/08/13 01:08 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Jackie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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from Latin paene "almost" + ultimus "final" then there's preantepenultimate, and... 
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#208816 - 01/08/13 05:25 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Jackie]
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stranger
Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 8
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Have some Madeira, m'Dear!
It's really an excellent year.
Now if it were gin, you'd be wrong to say yes,
The evil gin does would be hard to assess
(Besides it's inclined to affect my prowess)
Have some Madeira, m'Dear!"
Then there flashed though her mind what her mother had said
With her antepenultimate breath:
"Oh my child, should you look at the wine which is red
Be prepared for a fate worse than death!"
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#208818 - 01/08/13 10:36 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: maverick]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10463
Loc: this too shall pass
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then there's preantepenultimate, and... you can actually find this used quite a bit in discussions of stress and syllabication/syllabification. but here's my question: preantepenultimate is often defined as 'fourth from last'; why isn't it third from the last? ultimate: last penultimate: next to the last antepenultimate: second? from the last pre~: third? from the last unless, of course you're counting from the 'edge', as in a photo: on the left is.. second from the left.. third from the left
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#208819 - 01/08/13 10:54 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: maverick]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3269
Loc: R'lyeh
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from Latin paene "almost"
Whence our peninsula (lit. 'almost an island').
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#208841 - 01/08/13 07:41 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: zmjezhd]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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> island
faskinating, thanks for that nunc - I had never made that connection (a bridge too far?)
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#208842 - 01/08/13 08:10 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: tsuwm]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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> you can actually find this used quite a bit in discussions of stress and syllabication/syllabification. scene - interior, consultant's room, view of LA thro' windowConsultant: So, tell me, what triggers this overwhelming stress? Patient: It’s the syllables, doctor – every time I see antepenultimate I get in a tizzy because I don’t know if they mean fourth from last or third from last! but here's my question: preantepenultimate is often defined as 'fourth from last'; why isn't it third from the last?tsory, didn't mean to ignore your question. We might some of us remember this cropping up from Anu a while ago. It seems to me rather a confusion about what the label means – in other words, “third to last” may sound like it should be three behind the last, but the expression has grown up evidently meaning otherwise: ‘second to last’ commonly is clear as ‘the horse that came in ahead of only one other’ – it was (in this topsy-turvy inverted frame of reference) placed second, surpassed by only one in the race to the bottom. Hm, that’s prolly as clear as mud but.
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#208844 - 01/08/13 08:15 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: scribbler101]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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Have some Madeira, m'Dear!
It's really an excellent year.
Now if it were gin, you'd be wrong to say yes,
The evil gin does would be hard to assess
(Besides it's inclined to affect my prowess)
Have some Madeira, m'Dear!"
Thanks for reminding me of Flanders & Swann - underrated, and surely overdue for revival in perhaps a biographically based show...
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#208846 - 01/08/13 08:44 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: tsuwm]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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I think the confusion creeps in when you tried to specify
> antepenultimate: second? from the last [e.a.]
The common phrase I think is based on an elision:
Penultimate is ‘second [compared] to last’ whilst antepenultimate is ‘third to last’, leaving preantepenultimate in ‘fourth to last’ position (or the ‘last excepting three’ as per OED).
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#208857 - 01/09/13 09:37 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: olly]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13654
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0 - Ultimate first
1 - Penultimate Second
2 - Antepenultimate Third
3 - Preantepenultimate Fourth This is fine until you throw in "from last". If ultimate is "last" is it also anything "from last"? I like the OED's "last but n".
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#208864 - 01/09/13 01:51 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Faldage]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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Yes, the but n~ config is nice and clear - but I think so is the use of the word to as a comparative against the defined position. The word 'from' throws confusion in the mix.
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#208882 - 01/10/13 09:09 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: maverick]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
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Have some Madeira, m'Dear!
It's really an excellent year.
Now if it were gin, you'd be wrong to say yes,
The evil gin does would be hard to assess
(Besides it's inclined to affect my prowess)
Have some Madeira, m'Dear!"
Thanks for reminding me of Flanders & Swann - underrated, and surely overdue for revival in perhaps a biographically based show... I have "At the Drop of a Hat" and "At the Drop of Another Hat" on CD and giggle my way to work and back listening to them from time to time ... Were you aware that Stephanie Flanders, the BBC's economics editor, is Michael Flanders' daughter?
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#208891 - 01/10/13 12:28 PM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Capital Kiwi]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
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> Stephanie
Yes, I frequently chuckle when I hear her pontificating on matters economical - have some madeira, m'dear!
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#208928 - 01/11/13 06:02 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Jackie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
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Because, m'dear, some 2,000 years ago those pesky Romans decided that one Jackie Fulner, unpredictably bred out of the chaos that would follow the collapse of the empire, and living in a non-existent city in an unknown land, would be PISSED OFF AT THEM!
And the Romans liked barbarians to be pissed off at them. It gave the legions something to do besides overthrowing emperors. So it's all your fault, and don't you dare try to say other, my girl!
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#208931 - 01/11/13 10:03 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Jackie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3269
Loc: R'lyeh
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why is this so close orthographically to paean?
They're not that close. Latin paene 'almost' is an adverb, while Latin paean 'hymn to Apollo' is a noun and a loan from Greek Παιαν (Paian).
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#208932 - 01/11/13 11:25 AM
Re: antepenultimate
[Re: Jackie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
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I think she meant orthographically close to English-speaking Western eyes ...
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The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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