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#208569 - 12/31/12 01:59 PM Re: Plummy [Re: maverick]
LukeJavan8 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 6692
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
...to say nothing of his coughing! Funny, much.
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#208588 - 12/31/12 04:56 PM Re: Plummy [Re: LukeJavan8]
Rhubarb Commando Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1074
Loc: Lancaster, UK
Jim was speaking of this incident on the radio yesterday (on a programme recalling notable events of the past year) and said that he had, immediately after the programme, hand-written a letter to Jereny Hunt to apologise and explain and taken it, himself , to the Minsitry. He handed the letter to the receptionist, explaining that it should be immediately given to Jeremy Hunt. The receptionist turned to Jim and asked, "Who's he?"
smirk
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#208599 - 12/31/12 07:33 PM Re: Plummy [Re: maverick]
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
maverick???? DARLING!! Oh! OH!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE---YOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay people, we're gonna be back to having fun!

Oh, I love you I love you I love you!!!!!!

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#208600 - 12/31/12 08:01 PM Re: Plummy [Re: Jackie]
LukeJavan8 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 6692
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
frown
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#208604 - 12/31/12 08:42 PM Re: Plummy [Re: Jackie]
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
'S'all right,Luke; I love you too. But I've known my beloved maverick lots longer, and we have shared some things.

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#208610 - 01/01/13 10:01 AM Re: Plummy [Re: Jackie]
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
> !!!!!

Thanks for the welcome Mz J smile

Luke, I opened this page with my wife looking over my shoulder - she said somtin' like "hm... tell Jackie I send my love too!" smile

Farbeit for me to return to the topic an' all, but. Here's my take on RP for whatever it's not worth.

An Open University text I have references John Walker’s Critical Pronouncing Dictionary and Expositor of the English Language of 1791 and AJ Ellis’ On early English Pronunciation, 1869-1889 as early uses of this description but even more pointed is JC Wells’ citation of Daniel Jones* as the "great describer and codifier of the Received Pronunciation of English" in the 1890s.

Whatever its precise origins the term “received” seems to have (heh) been generally received to mean “the form of speech generally accepted by Society”. Note my use of the capital S: in my lex this term has always been freighted with social connotations that many parallel linguistic terms in other countries are not burdened with, such as for example General American or Standard Dutch or whatever. Wiki’s pretty good article (imho) quotes the phonetician Jack Windsor Lewis frequently who criticises the name "RP" as "invidious", a "ridiculously archaic, parochial and question-begging term" and opints out that American scholars find the term "quite curious". Beverley Collins and Inger Mees use the phrase "Non-Regional Pronunciation" for what is often otherwise called RP, and reserve the phrase "Received Pronunciation" for the "upper-class speech of the twentieth century".

What is objectively clear, whatever view is taken of the socio-cultural baggage train, is that RP is very narrowly used – Trudghill is widely quoted in his estimate that no more than 3% of the UK population use this form of lexical production, complete with stretched vowels, intrusive r’s and all the other phonological features also mentioned in wiki. He has an article that some of you may find interesting here.

There’s a good little discussion about the BBC’s relationship to RP, with some interesting quotes from BBC Pronunciation Unit personnel and so on here.


* Wells JC, 1982 Accents of English - An Introduction Cambridge University Press

PS I totally concur with the 'plums in the mouth' description as indicating an early 20th centrury upper class English accent.

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#208615 - 01/01/13 11:59 AM Re: Plummy [Re: Jackie]
Rhubarb Commando Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1074
Loc: Lancaster, UK
Thanks for the links, mav - some very interesting stuff there. My own observations concur with those of Trudghill, that RP is evolving, rather than disappearing. One still hears it from relatively youthful people on the radio and TV, particularly on Radios 3 and 4 in Britain. However, an individual's lack of RP is no longer a great barrier to being taken seriously, so long as the accent isn't "broad."
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#208618 - 01/01/13 01:23 PM Re: Plummy [Re: maverick]
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 6692
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
Luke, I opened this page with my wife looking over my shoulder - she said somtin' like "hm... tell Jackie I send my love too!"


Yes??


Edited by LukeJavan8 (01/01/13 01:42 PM)
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#208620 - 01/01/13 01:33 PM Re: Plummy [Re: Rhubarb Commando]
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
> evolving

Yep, I completely agree with you Rhuby. I think just like other full-blown language communities, this has tended to devolve and evolve into variants and subsets, most of which are still markers of intellectual prestige but not necessarily plum-in-the-mouth social superiority.

And you are surely right that its lack can sometimes prove no hindrance – Melvin Barg’s adenoidal Cumbrian tones have interestingly enough proved resistant to the steamroller of both an Oxford education and sustained work at the Beeb.

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#208646 - 01/01/13 09:48 PM Re: Plummy [Re: maverick]
Rhubarb Commando Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1074
Loc: Lancaster, UK
Yes, Melvin does have a touch of Cumberland to hs speech - until you talk to a Cumberland Sheep Farmer from the high fells, when you realise just how much he has modified his accent! (I live fairly near to the Lake District, so hear the speech of the people of Westmorland, Cumberland and Lancashire-over-the Sands fairly often!)
But this is completely usual. I am aware that my own speech has transmogrified quite a bit from a 20 year sojourn in darkest Northamtonshire and over 25 years in Lancashire has left its mark, too - I find myself saying 'baeth' instead of 'ba:th', and also shortening "the" to "t'" at times.
A Scottish lecturer colleague of mine, who has lived in Lancaster for around 40 yeqas, has gradually modified his accent over the 27 years I've known him, too.
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