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#205327 - 04/03/12 12:01 PM French words that are now anglicized
tiberall Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 3
Loc: CA
This has been a topic I've thought about ever since I took a Teaching Company course on the History of the English Language. I got to thinking about the fact that much of the English language is French based due to the Norman conquest in 1066. Much of our legal vocabulary is of French origin (appeal, plea, justice, evidence, etc). But these words sound English to us. Others don't even though they are part of English now, like a la carte and art nouveau. What I'm wondering is what is the last French word that has been absorbed into English that no longer sounds French to us? How long does it take for a word to lose its foreignness?

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#205342 - 04/05/12 07:30 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
That would be really hard to trace. And I think it never looses it's foreignness, only we no longer notice it.

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#205343 - 04/05/12 08:29 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: BranShea]
gooofy Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: BranShea
And I think it never looses it's foreignness, only we no longer notice it.


What is the difference?

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#205344 - 04/05/12 08:58 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
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I'm not quite sure how one would even measure the "foreignness" of a loanword. Perhaps have a text for people to read out loud and see how they pronounce some loanwords, or if they hesitate before the words or phrases. If people pronounce a word by naturalizing its "foreign" pronunciation into something more accommodating to English phonetics, that word has probably been "anglicized". Although some words never seem to lose their "foreignness", e.g., deja vu (even if it has lost its accents), schadenfreude (part of whose definition seems to include the German language or the German people).
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#205347 - 04/05/12 02:36 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: gooofy]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Originally Posted By: gooofy
Originally Posted By: BranShea
And I think it never looses it's foreignness, only we no longer notice it.


What is the difference?


And I think it never looses it's foreigness, only we got used to it.

That any better gooofy?

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#205348 - 04/05/12 03:57 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Beef might be a good example of a loanword having lost its foreignness. It's taken on the good English plural beeves.

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#205351 - 04/06/12 03:46 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: Faldage]
BranShea Offline
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Ha, beeves and beverages. We're used to the word 'beverages' but just give beverage one second look and it makes you laugh.

It's taken on the good English plural beeves

Do you really consider words that passed from English to American as loanwords too? It's all English to me.

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#205352 - 04/06/12 07:31 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: BranShea]
Faldage Offline
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Originally Posted By: BranShea
It's taken on the good English plural beeves

Do you really consider words that passed from English to American as loanwords too? It's all English to me.

Beef is from the Old French buef, (Modern French boeuf). The f > v in the plural is from the Old English voicing of unvoiced consonants between vowels, cf. wife/wives, knife/knives.

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#205353 - 04/06/12 07:40 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: Faldage]
BranShea Offline
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Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
And in France when you want a steak you can order a 'steak de boeuf' but more often it's just 'bifteck'. That's what makes languages an amusing thing.

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#205366 - 04/06/12 02:31 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
tedstoddard Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re etymology of mayday/m'aidez: I think the "m'" stems from "moi", as in "aidez-moi", not from "me", tho the meaning's the same ...

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#205390 - 04/07/12 08:13 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: BranShea]
gooofy Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: BranShea
Originally Posted By: gooofy
Originally Posted By: BranShea
And I think it never looses it's foreignness, only we no longer notice it.


What is the difference?


And I think it never looses it's foreigness, only we got used to it.

That any better gooofy?


No, it's pretty much the same.

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#205417 - 04/09/12 03:09 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: gooofy]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
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Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Doldrums.

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#205431 - 04/11/12 12:00 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
LlamaLadySG Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 3
An anglicized word I often see in e-mail group posts is "wala" meaning an expression of surprise when something good happens with little effort on one's part. From the French "voilą." I was attributing it to ignorance, but I guess it's just anglicization.

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#205432 - 04/11/12 12:32 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: LlamaLadySG]
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
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Loc: this too shall pass
or it could be anglicization from ignorance.

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#205440 - 04/11/12 10:35 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Hmm--smacks of Araby or India to me. Though I suppose they could have borrowed it from French...?

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#205445 - 04/12/12 07:02 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Or either you're thinking of wallah.

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#205454 - 04/12/12 09:36 PM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: tiberall]
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I was, yes.

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#205458 - 04/13/12 07:08 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: Jackie]
Tromboniator Online   content
old hand

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 830
Loc: Alaska
I've seen the wallah spelling, as well as wala, walah, and walla, when voilą was clearly the intended meaning.

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#205465 - 04/13/12 11:08 AM Re: French words that are now anglicized [Re: Tromboniator]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
I've seen the wallah spelling, as well as wala, walah, and walla, when voilą was clearly the intended meaning.

All these spellings indicate a change in pronunciation from /'vwala/ to /'wɑlɑ/.
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