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#204416 - 01/29/12 09:54 AM metier
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5248 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	"From a book I'm reading: "None of this means that the Middle Ages had failed to diffuse advances in practical knowledge, but this effort was restricted by their institutions. The guilds of artisans kept the tricks of the trade secret; they were valuable property, as are today patents and copyrights. By an unconcious pun, the French for craft - métier- was thought (erroneously) to be derived from mistère(= mystery)." - I looked up the closest easy to find etymology of metier adn found: 1792, from Fr. métier "trade, profession," from O.Fr. mestier, from Gallo-Romance misterium, from L. ministerium "office, service," from minister "servant" (see minister). It seems to me that métier coming from misterium is more plausible than it coming from L. ministerium in spite of what the author of the book says. More likely the English, only starting to use it from 1792 connected it to "office". Edited by BranShea (01/29/12 03:47 PM)
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#204417 - 01/29/12 10:07 AM Re: metier [Re: BranShea]
HalAl stranger Registered: 03/22/04 Posts: 19 Loc: Central Indiana	I seem to recall that some religious rites were considered "mysteries" in pre-Christian times, and the Christian church picked up on the idea of mystery. Is there no connection between an ecclesiastical mystery and a trade secret? To me they seem to follow.
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#204418 - 01/29/12 10:49 AM Re: metier [Re: HalAl]
Rhubarb Commando old hand Registered: 11/13/11 Posts: 1016 Loc: Lancaster, UK	... and most certainly the Mediæval Gilds referred to their trade secrets as "the mysteries of the craft." _________________________ I'm immortal until proven otherwise
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#204419 - 01/29/12 11:07 AM Re: metier [Re: Rhubarb Commando]
LukeJavan8 Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/08 Posts: 5268 Loc: Land of the Flat Water	As do the Masonic lodges today. _________________________ ----please, draw me a sheep----
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#204422 - 01/29/12 03:42 PM Re: metier [Re: Rhubarb Commando]
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5248 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	Originally Posted By: Rhubarb Commando ... and most certainly the Mediæval Gilds referred to their trade secrets as "the mysteries of the craft." Yes indeed, that is what the quote is telling us. I brought it in here because of the writer's opinion that the French were "erroneous" about the etymology. That is what I doubt. Edited by BranShea (01/29/12 03:45 PM)
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#204426 - 01/29/12 10:59 PM Re: metier [Re: BranShea]
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 11577 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	zmjezhd? Can you enlighten us on this intriguing mystery? (I love a good mystery; thanks, Branny!) I will say, I can see how 'minister' prolly went to 'serve' then 'work'. This stuff is so much fun!
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#204429 - 01/30/12 05:50 AM Re: metier [Re: Jackie]
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5248 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	Yes and I can see how métier, mestier could come from misterium and so I wonder, yes I wonder who stole the show.
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#204432 - 01/30/12 06:57 AM Re: metier [Re: BranShea]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 13653	Folk etymologies almost always do seem to make sense. That doesn't make them right.
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#204434 - 01/30/12 07:46 AM Re: metier [Re: Jackie]
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 3268 Loc: R'lyeh	Can you enlighten us on this intriguing mystery? Sorry, not really. Either looks plausible. All the dictionaries I checked derive métier from ministerium and not from mysterium. You'd really need to talk to a French lexicographer to find out what's up. It's good to remember that the etymologies one finds in dictionaries are just an abbreviated form of what scholars write out in articles and monographs which would contain more of an argument for why a certain etymology lost out to another one. _________________________ Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#204442 - 01/30/12 01:36 PM Re: metier [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5248 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	Then we'll live with one more intriguing mystery left intact. As is OK. Thanks for taking the trouble.
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