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stranger
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stranger
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etymology of the "murder" portion of this animal-gang term is fuzzy at best. Do any of you wordies care to venture an opinion/research? Would appreciate.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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even the OED is uncertain on this, but suggests perhaps alluding to the crow's traditional association with violent death, or, as suggested in quot. 1939, to its harsh and raucous cry.
on a related note..
Four scholars at Oxford were making their way down the street, and happened to see a group of ladies of the evening. “What’s this?” said the first. “A jam of tarts?” “Nay,” said the second, “an essay of Trollope’s.” “Rather, a flourish of strumpets,” advanced the third. “No, gentlemen,” concluded the last. “Here we have an anthology of pros.” [thanx to Quinion]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Too bad they weren't reading at the time. (anthology of prose)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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well, thank you, Rhonda O. 
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Never saw this before : A murder of crows.
Looked it up. How clever we are to put the blame elsewhere since it's not the crows that do the murders (except steal eggs and tiny creatures for food). It's them that clean up our murders from war and other kills. So to they seem to me sooner a shift of crows.
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Carpal Tunnel
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[bow] 
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Carpal Tunnel
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You may call me Rhonda any time you like, sir. :^)
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I looked it up too and found more Collective Words a 'lounge of lizards' tickled my fancy.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fancy...fancy. There oughta be something that could be. Let's see-- a fancy of...fools?
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I like that Jackie
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Carpal Tunnel
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Let's see-- a fancy of...fools?
Why? We already have the perfect phrase a ship of fools.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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True...I'd forgotten that.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Okay, then--got any other ideas for a flight of fancy?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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A Fancy of Nancys  (no offense intended) of Débutantes of Calligraphers of Dans of Fops of Figure Skaters ...I should go now
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old hand
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old hand
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A Fancy of NancysA Fancy of Pantsys 
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Carpal Tunnel
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Pity, Owl's gone again....off with Rocky Racoon.
"Her name was Magil and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy"
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addict
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addict
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but then again, (back to the murder of crows), aren't crows and ravens and such supposed to be harbingers of doom? and they do tend to make a terrible noise and float around battlefields. They also eat my neighbours chicks, ducklings and baby pheasants...murderous things
----The next sentence is true. The previous sentence is false----
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Carpal Tunnel
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Many Native American nations consider them to be
gods, or messengers of gods, even talismanic good creatures.
They are often in the totems of the Pacific Coast peoples.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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Carpal Tunnel
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bexter! Good ta see ya, feller! [blowing kiss e] And yes, they are murderous, thieving things. I saw one take a baby songbird out of its nest a few years ago, the little one hanging limply from the claws as the parents fluttered frantically but uselessly. And I remember many years ago reading a story where a crow would fly into some house and steal shiny jewelry, thus getting one of the inhabitants in trouble till they found the stash. A British story, I think...hmm, it may have been a magpie. [shrug] But didn't Dickon of The Secret Garden have a crow as a pet?
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Carpal Tunnel
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And crows figure largely in HBO's "The Game of Thrones".
----please, draw me a sheep----
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old hand
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old hand
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Wow, just saw a video of a murmurration of Starlings.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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and you thought of us olly....how nice.
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stranger
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stranger
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One might recall Poe's "The Raven," wherein the raven (same genus as crows: corvidae) is a figure of terror. Perhaps because crows are so intelligent, even to the point of making tools, and opportunistic, we might anthropomorphically view them as murderers.
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Carpal Tunnel
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They are considered sacred by Native Tribes in the
Pacific Northwest.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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stranger
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stranger
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As are coyotes in the Southwest.
I see you're also a Saint-Exupery fan, Luke.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes I am. I taught French and used "Le Petit Prince" as
a text in Second Year. Thanks for noticing.
And note the avatar which fellow poster here, Tromboniator
drew for me as per my signature.
Welcome to the site.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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stranger
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stranger
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Yes I am. I taught French and used "Le Petit Prince" as
a text in Second Year. Thanks for noticing. Then perhaps you can explain the use of the English, "Prince," in the title instead of "Dauphin." Perhaps because it was written in the US? Thanks, but I've been here before under my full name, Hal Alexander. A computer meltdown, followed by a brain meltdown (stroke) left me unable to remember how to log in, hence the new name.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Perhaps the little prince was not the son of the King of France.
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Carpal Tunnel
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That and the Dauphin was what we call the "Crown Prince",
the heir to the throne, the next in line to be king.
But there can be many princes, male royals.
The Little Prince came from his own planet, far, far away, and
he was on a quest throughout the universe, landing on earth
along the way. He landed in the Desert, and probably knew
nothing of France. The only earth person he met was the pilot,
who drew his sheep inside a box.
After your "meltdowns: both computer and personal" I certainly
hope you are doing better.
Last edited by LukeJavan8; 01/23/12 02:46 AM.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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Carpal Tunnel
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Wow--glad you're doing better now, neighbor. Welcome back.
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Pooh-Bah
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Sounds like murder...Hal. Glad to have you back and I hope you continue to improve.
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old hand
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old hand
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Good to see that you have recovered enough to get back in here, Hal. Living with any sort of disability isn't easy, as I know from experience, but you do right to get on with life as fully as you possibly can. More power to your elbow (or any other part of your anatomy that needsit!)
Hope to see you here a lot.
I'm immortal until proven otherwise
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stranger
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stranger
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Thanks, all. Isn't there another word for "prince" in French? It seems it was, like "dauphin," animal related, but I can't remember.
I recently learned, via a biography of St-Ex, that he flew a Caudron "Simoun," (sandstorm) into a sand dune, creating his own sandstorm. A bit of irony! But that was the setting for his wonderful story. Makes me think sometimes calamity can lead to another kind of success.
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sometimes calamity can lead to another kind of success. Indeed it can. (She said, having been an instigator of many calamities.) Wouldn't it be nice if we could recognize that at the time they hit? The ARTFL project says the French word for prince is prince. link
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Carpal Tunnel
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The Dauphin was a particular prince, the son of the King of France. It's kinda like saying the English word for prince is The Prince of Wales.
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old hand
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old hand
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... and the English didn't use the word 'prince' until after William of Normandy invaded us in 1066, I believe. It isn't a title in the old Saxon or Scandinavian cultures.
I'm immortal until proven otherwise
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Carpal Tunnel
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... and, prince does not always mean the 'son of a king'. On the Continent, there are princes in their own right: e.g., Monaco, Lichtenstein. German (and other Germanic languages have cognates) has Fürst. German also has Prinz. The former word is cognate with English first; in Latin princeps means literally 'first head'.
Old English had æðeling for the 'son of a king'.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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And dauphin is the French word for dolphin.
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stranger
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stranger
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And dauphin is the French word for dolphin. So noted in my post above, when I stated, "...animal-related..." I have not found what word I was looking for - and I may well be wrong. Also, the French Crown Prince's coat of arms had dolphins on it! It would appear that the word had earlier generalized in Italy, hence Machiavelli's use of it in "Il Principe," suggesting any ruler.
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The First ( not among his equals) probably a connection with Fürst??
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veteran
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Pooh-Bah
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Great find FF and I enjoyed reading the other comments there too!
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The First [...] probably a connection with Fürst??
Yes, the are related. As is Latin princeps 'prince' with primus 'first'.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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veteran
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veteran
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Lists the collective for bacteria as "culture," but this collective differs in character from the others in that it is more restrictive (I think). I don't think a "culture of bacteria" refers to any collection of bacteria that occurs in the wild, so to speak, but ONLY those that are grown through the process of culturing or cultivation; that is, by being put into a "growth medium" (such as agar) under the right conditions. Anyway, this reminds me - SUPPORT BACTERIA (it's the only culture some people have)
Last edited by TheFallibleFiend; 01/26/12 09:18 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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Carpal Tunnel
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A friend of mine gave his son a T-shirt printed with EPIC FIAL.
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veteran
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veteran
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A friend of mine gave his son a T-shirt printed with EPIC FIAL. Cute! I used to have a T from a bar called "Chilkoot Charlie's Rustic Alaskan Saloon." Front: We cheat the OTHER guy ... Back: ... and pass the savings on to YOU! I found a less serious set of proposed collectives here: http://all-sorts.org/
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Carpal Tunnel
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----please, draw me a sheep----
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