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To explain why drummers were members of the lowest caste - Drumming was an occupation performed by the Dalit or untouchable caste because drums were made from the tanned hides of animals and therefore associated with death. Therefore, the task of beating on them with bare hands fell to the Dalit caste, who performed the "unclean" occupations having to do with death and human waste.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Makes perfect sense in a caste-like situation.
WELCOME MOWGLI
----please, draw me a sheep----
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks for this information (Earliest documented use: 1613.)
Does this mean Mowgli, that before 1613 Dalit was the general word for the untouchable caste ? Has pariah replaced this word Dalit which you write with capital D , while pariah is written without a capitial ? I know very little about this. Was the untouchable caste only one tribe?
By the way, on the photo the drummer is beating the drum with two sticks.
Last edited by BranShea; 04/19/11 07:39 PM.
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Carpal Tunnel
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That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the Indian caste system
In the Oldest Sanskrit text (the Rig Veda), there are four divisions, from highest to lowest, in the caste system (varṇa 'covering, color'): brāhman 'priest', kṣatriya 'warrior', vaiṣya 'merchant, artisan', and śūdra 'laborer'. The split and proliferated in post-Vedic times. Brahmin is related to Latin flamen 'priest' and Kshatriya is related to Iranian shah and English chess.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Pooh-Bah
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That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system. Thats a good point, Faldage. I have read that the word pariah may come from the Tamil word parai and parayar "to tell something". In early days announcements were made in public places and attention was sought be beating the drum. These broadcasts were usually made by men from the lower casts. So you can see how the two became to mean the same, pariah and low cast. And maybe the messages were not always good news..... Like the saying, 'shoot the messenger' maybe the pariah became the outcast because of the announcements he made.
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member
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According to the OED Online, "pariah" is from Tamil பறையன் paṟaiyaṉ "(hereditary) drummer" from பறை paṟai "drum".
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Carpal Tunnel
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from பறை paṟai "drum"Took a quick look in Burrow's Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (brick & mortar version, but also online): entry 4033. Corroborated, although it also means a measure and a member of the Paraiya caste.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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old hand
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I can't contribute to this discussion, because I do not know much about caste. In modern cosmopolitan daily life in India, it is not much of an issue.
Edit: Sorry luke edited this after you replied to it. Never serves to refer to the P word.
Last edited by Avy; 04/22/11 04:03 PM.
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Carpal Tunnel
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How sad!
But it is good to hear that it is not of daily relevance.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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Pooh-Bah
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CONGRATULATIONS Mowgli
This week's Email of the Week is from Mowgli, who will finally get his well-deserved Comeuppance - eight ounces of poetic justice, sent Priority Mail and unconditionally guaranteed.
I really enjoyed researching and the discussion around this word.
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Pooh-Bah
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Also I am adding the editorial from this weeks AWAD. because some people may not subscribe to it and I think its important. My understanding is that the word pariah is used in the sense that someone is an outcast, not necessarity for a morally repugnant act. A plain-dressed woman could be a pariah in a Hollywood fashion party. But the deeper issue you raise is about using someone's name in a generic sense, as an eponym. We've featured hundreds of eponyms in the past. These eponyms may convey positive or negative qualities. The issue becomes thorny when a particular quality is ascribed to a whole community. For example, see: pharisaical and helot .
Pharisees are no more so we can perhaps get away with using the word. A Helot could move to another city, say Athens, and shed his connection to the town of Helos and the image it conjures. But the way the caste system works, a member of the Paraiyar caste, after which the word pariah is coined, could no more leave the caste he was born in than a man could change the color of his skin.
So what about the word pariah? The term is too well-established, in the English language, and in a number of fields, such as math ( Pariah group ), international relations ( Pariah state ), animal breeds ( Pariah dog ), among others. As you indicate, most people who use the term are unaware of its origin, even people from the southern states in India where the Paraiyar live. Does the fact that the word has wide currency give us the latitude to ignore its offensiveness to the people after whom it was coined?
I consulted a number of people, including some from the state of Tamil Nadu, where the word came from. V. Balakrishnan, a professor at IIT Chennai wrote, "It's a little like the word negro, which has, of course, lost all its literal meaning and is today entirely pejorative. In that sense, pariah, too, is a word that perhaps deserves to be consigned to oblivion through benign neglect."
Lakshmi Gopal, a professional editor and English instructor said, "When I first went to the US, I didn't realise that the word Negro is not to be used unless you wanted to end up in ER -- for me Negro was just a word signifying people who originated in Nigeria. If the entire world is to be aware and accept the fact that the words Negro or nigger are insulting, what's wrong in expecting the entire world to be aware that pariah is insulting to a community in India?"
Finally, Ashok Mahadevan, retired chief editor of Reader's Digest India told me, "It seems wrong not to point it out just because the Paraiyar community doesn't have much clout in the West (or perhaps even in India). In fact, although I rarely use the word, I'm now going to stop using it altogether. After all, there are plenty of alternatives."
So, many thanks for raising this issue and sharing your thoughts. We've now added a note and a link to this discussion in the entry for the word pariah.
-Anu GargI rarely hear this word either, but when I do, I will remember how it has become a derogative word and use my knowledge to educate the user.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, congratulations indeed!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, congratulations indeed! I saw it too, and am proud of you as well.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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