Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132
G
member
Offline
member
G
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132
Originally Posted By: olly
I think it has much to do with Two different sounds to make the one complete sound. Mar and ch.


Still just 1 vowel sound. Same with "strengths"

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: goofy
Originally Posted By: AlimaeHP
So in other words, it is, within the English lexicon, actually the "ar " sound in March that is deemed the syllabic aspect. Thus rendering the two distinct sounds as just consonates and dialect?


The definition of "syllable" is tricky, but in English a syllable consists of a vowel sound and any surrounding consonants. "March" contains 1 vowel sound, so it has 1 syllable.


True, but it is one word which really makes it difficult when dealing with poetic meter.
Though as can be seen by tsuwm's post, not impossible.

Originally Posted By: tsuwm
there ain't no schwas in March (to my ear), even if you march to the beat of a different drum.

You can lead a horse to water
But u can't make him drink,
U can lead a human by the nose
But you can't make him think
I may be lost sometimes
But i don't follow anyone
I'll always march to the beat
The beat of a different drum

-Lower Class Brats


Rev. Alimae
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
So, how many syllables is strengths?

I'd say one. Though not all syllables are the same length, especially in languages where vocalic phonemes can differ by length (as in Sanskrit, Latin, Classical Greek, German, etc.). There's a difference between syllables and morae.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
What a horrible time for this interesting topic to have come up! I do not have the time or leisure for this, but I cannot resist.

This is how I parse tsu-s's rhyme below:
'You can 'lead a 'horse to 'water 8
But u 'can't 'make him 'drink, 6
'U can 'lead a 'human 'by the 'nose 9
But you 'can't 'make him 'think 6
I 'may be 'lost some'times 5
But 'i don't 'follow 'any'one 8
I'll 'always 'march 'to the 'beat 7
The 'beat of a 'different 'drum 8
-Lower Class Brats

There does not seem consistency in the beat, but the rhyme still works for me because of I think the rhyming, but mostly because it is consistently iambic throughout, except for the last two lines - was that what you meant by march being problematic? But I think the inconsistency in rhythm of the last two lines works. They emulate the rat a tat. I love the dactyl of the last line.

In my op, the worst word meter wise is 'every' - HOG!

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
syllables and morae.

Yeah, thats what I was trying to get at I didn't know the technical term.

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Is morae a syllable differentiated by its length? Eastern poetry has that. I am still struggling to learn it. Can't be learnt on line. What is a strength?

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
In my op, the worst word meter wise is 'every' Why? It's just two syllables, ev and ree. wink
I think I have seen it as ev'ry, to denote this.

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
I thought it is denoted as ev'ry to indicate the middle schwa has been dropped. In normal speech also I pronounce it with a slight schwa in the middle. However, I just looked it up on google, and it says most dictionaries list it as two syllables. So I don't know. I have always thought it to be three - since it has 3 vowels.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Is morae a syllable differentiated by its length? Eastern poetry has that. I am still struggling to learn it. Can't be learnt on line.

You can start at Wikipedia (link).
Quote:
A mora ... a unit of sound used in phonology that determines syllable weight (which in turn determines stress or timing) in some languages. As with many technical linguistics terms, the exact definition of mora varies. Perhaps the most succinct working definition was provided by the American linguist James D. McCawley in 1968: a mora is “Something of which a long syllable consists of two and a short syllable consists of one.” The term comes from the Latin word for “linger, delay”, which was also used to translate the Greek word chronos (time) in its metrical sense.
What is a strength?

I think Faldo meant the word strengths.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
The Japanese poetic form haiku is said, in English, to have three lines of five, seven, and five syllables, respectively. Thinking of these as we think of syllables can lead to some very clunky poetry. The Japanese are actually counting morae. Where the word haiku is thought of as having two syllables in English it has three morae in Japanese, ha i ku. A mora in Japanese is a V, a CV, or the phoneme /n/, although the /n/ can be the C in a CV combination.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,347
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 774 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,548
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,918
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5