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#193464 - 10/13/10 12:35 PM Exceeding Thresholds in reverse
TheFallibleFiend Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1523
Loc: Virginia, USA

It's normal to write that a threshold has been exceeded. But it seems clumsy for some reason to describe how a minimum threshold is passed.

We could say that the threshold was exceeded, except that "exceeded" make it sound like you're describing coming from below and attaining the threshold value. Same with surpassed.

We could say that it is 'transcended', but that seems a little too pompous and I'm not sure it's any clearer.

We could say that it's 'passed', but that loses the sense of direction.

Instead I'm using the clumsier, "fell below the threshold."

Encroach? Breach? Nah.

Is there a more compact, less clumsy way of expressing this?

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#193467 - 10/13/10 05:54 PM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
olly Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Outside the threshold?

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#193468 - 10/13/10 08:01 PM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I like "fell below". it's very clear, and offers opportunity for gradation: "plummeted below", "slid below", "dropped", etc.

or maybe that's what you're looking for?
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#193475 - 10/14/10 03:12 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Candy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 1705
Loc: down under
maybe

below par... as in not quiet there or not usual standard

below threshold
not meet threshold or less than configuration

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#193476 - 10/14/10 06:24 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13801
I'm a little unclear on just what you're after, FF. Can you give us an example?

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#193477 - 10/14/10 10:14 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: Faldage]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1523
Loc: Virginia, USA
Thanks for all the suggestions. To clarify, I'm looking for a verb to be used.

Let's say you have a threshold that is an upper limit. We can indicate with an economy of language that the threshold was passed AND that it was passed going in the direction that might offer some indication. "The threshold was exceeded." I *think* most people would infer that the threshold in this case is an upper threshold or an upper limit. So it's not just that this boundary condition was crossed, but the direction that was taken that I want to convey.

However, there are many cases when we have a lower threshold or a lower limit. If a measurement (say from a sensor) were to fall below that limit, it would be nice to say "the threshold was exceeded" or "the lower threshold was exceeded" - and I vaguely recall having seen that usage, although that could be a false memory. In any case, it's a little jarring to my ears.

As Buffalo noted, I could have said something like, "the measurement fell below the minimum threshold." It's a little wordy, but it's clear and it's also what I decided to use until I find something just as clear, but more concise. I would like to say "the threshold was X" (where X is a past tense verb).

It's not a huge deal, but if there is a better way of expressing it, I would like to know.


Edited by TheFallibleFiend (10/14/10 10:15 AM)

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#193481 - 10/15/10 12:01 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13801
I don't see any reason why you should have to use the word threshold. Maybe it would be easier if you just said "the lower limit" and figured a verb from there.

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#193483 - 10/15/10 02:54 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: Faldage]
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
In India, threshold has a special cultural significance. It is step at the door that separates the inside of the house from the outside. It has a symbolic meaning referring to the limits of a house. In the movie Umbartha (threshold) the woman of the house crosses her set limits and makes a life for herself outside the house despite being married to the man of the house. I guess because of this strong cultural reference threshold has always meant to me to be a limit to a horizontal space rather than a vertical space that can be quantified in terms of upper or lower.

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#193485 - 10/15/10 06:49 AM Re: Exceeding Thresholds in reverse [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13801
Just speaking literally, you go over a threshold. The only way you would go under a threshold would be in a game of extreme limbo.

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#193486 - 10/15/10 08:30 AM Re: preceding the liminal in limbo [Re: Faldage]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Just speaking literally, you go over a threshold. The only way you would go under a threshold would be in a game of extreme limbo.

In English, at least. In Latin limen, liminis, means 'threshold, the head-piece or foot-piece of a door, the lintel or the sill'. (Our word subliminal comes from it.) In Latin, it can also mean simply 'door' or 'house'. The post about Indian perceptions of threshold reminded me that in Latin a fanum is 'an area dedicated to a deity', such as a sanctuary or temple. Profanum means outside of this area. (Whence our profane.)

Getting back to the topic, there is a word supraliminal (link) meaning 'above the threshold of consciousness or sensation)'. Maybe you could adapt that ...

[Edited: OK, I've fixed myself some coffee, and realized I'm just rambling here. Above the threshold is not what was asked for. Just move along, nothing to glean here.]
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