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#19074 - 02/24/01 08:03 PM Re:Kiddie lit
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
And a lot of Kiddie lit is good only for kittie litter.


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#19075 - 02/25/01 04:10 AM Re: Queer
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
As I understand it, back in the 19th century gay was used as a slang term for female prostitutes, and was later (1920s/1930s) extended to cover younger tramps (hobos for cross the ponders) and convicts who were taken under the protection of an older and more experienced man in exchange for services rendered. This was what led to the present general homosexual reference. So for most (all?) of us here, the potential for sexual double entendre has been there since before we were born, we just weren't aware of it.

Which would I rather be called, gay or queer? As Fiberbabe and Jo said, it depends on who's doing the calling. From a negative minded person any description can be used as an insult. As we're finding out in many fields euphemism only works for so long before the less explicit and offensive term becomes just as explicit and offensive as the term it has replaced unless there is also a change in attitude , much more difficult to bring about.

Bingley
_________________________
Bingley

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#19076 - 02/25/01 07:57 AM Re: Queer
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11605
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
euphemism only works for so long before the less explicit and offensive term becomes just as explicit and offensive as the term it has replaced unless there is also a change in attitude , much more difficult to bring about.

Bingley, my sweet, you speak the truth. In yesterday's comics, a little girl making arm motions sings, "I'm a little teapot, vertically and metabolically challenged..."
(Her dad says, "Call me insensitive, but I like the
rhyming version."{Speed Bump by Dave Coverly, tsuwm})

It still means short and stout, which both carry negative connotations, and everyone knows it. 'Special ed.' has now become 'Exceptional Child Ed.' here, but everyone knows it
means retarded--'Advanced Placement' is still the 'Advanced
Program'. Gee, I wonder why that one didn't get PC'd?
Though I must say that I think, by and large, people are more accepting of retarded people than they are of those of us who are gay, lesbo, or fat.

Who knows what changes the future will bring? Perhaps advances in medicine will help. People who had epileptic seizures used to be thought demon-possessed. It would be nice if a change to acceptance happens in my lifetime, but somehow I rather doubt it.




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#19077 - 02/25/01 09:28 AM Re: Queer
Fiberbabe Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 771
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Bingley, your post reminded me of an account I heard for the term "gay"... although it was not from a very reliable source, so I'd appreciate correction if I'm off my cracker. Sometime in the 19th Century GAY was an acronym for "Green And Yellow", which served as a clothing color code for those in the know.

Anyone? Anyone?


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#19078 - 02/25/01 09:48 AM Re: Queer
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888

>It would be nice if a change to acceptance happens in my lifetime, but somehow I rather doubt it.

Oh Jackie, how can you say that? Look at us. We are such a varied bunch yet we manage to get along. Like every big family, we have some squabbles, big sisters and big brothers who don't always get along, but mostly what we share is friendship, caring and laughter.

I don't care what anybody looks like. I don't care if anyone has a spouse or a partner or how much anybody weighs. That is how I was raised and that is how I raised my son.

In both his highschool and primary school, there were children from every ethnic background imaginable. We are Caucasian French Canadians - his best friends Sayid (Pakistani), Alex (Mexican) and Vincent (Italian). That is in THIS generation Jackie.

Believe me, it IS possible. It takes work, it takes time and it takes good examples. Itíll happen sweetie. Trust me.




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#19079 - 02/25/01 10:32 AM Re: Attitudes
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Regarding the subject of changing attitudes :
There is a wonderful song in "South Pacific" about how bigotry is passed on. It's called "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught" if memory serves.
Perhaps some Board member with a better memory or a collection of Original Cast recordings could dig out the words and post them ????
It stands alone as a poem, set to music it is very poignant.

Read this somewhere ... wish it was a bumper sticker!
"Bigotry is a disease, don't be a carrier"

wow



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#19080 - 02/25/01 10:53 AM Re: Attitudes
Anonymous
Unregistered


"You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!"


Lyrics by: Oscar Hammerstein II (O. Greeley Clendenning H. II)

EDIT: I uploaded an .mp3 of the song to Max's MySpace account, if anyone's interested


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#19081 - 02/25/01 11:00 AM Re: Attitudes
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
And as usual, the Greeks had a word for it "xenophobia".


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#19082 - 02/25/01 11:33 AM Re: Song
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Dear Bridget96,
Thank you for finding the song.
How can I get to that site?
wow


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#19083 - 02/25/01 11:44 AM Re: Song
Anonymous
Unregistered


Go to http://www.myspace.com

log in using the name " maxquordlepleen " and enter the password " Crescent " (beware, passwords are often case sensitive, so you'll likely need to capitalize the cee)

Once you've logged in, click on " awadabilia " and you'll see the mp3.

send me a private if you have any problems =) and thanks again to max for the use of the account!


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