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#182338 - 02/02/09 08:46 PM Re: Cancer [Re: The Pook]
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 6436
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
'
JW's baptize only in the name of the Lord Jesus. No trinity
involved.
_________________________
----please, draw me a sheep----

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#182363 - 02/03/09 04:35 PM Re: Cancer [Re: The Pook]
PastorVon Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: The Pook
Originally Posted By: zmjezhd
The fact of the matter is that when a Christian prays, he always invokes the Triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

I was under the impression that there were some non-trinitarian sects of Christianity about. Or are all the heretics extinct. (I thought of Arians (like Ulfilas the Goth) and the Ebionites.)

There are still plenty of non-Trinitarian groups around, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, United Pentecostals, etc. JW's are pretty similar to the ancient Arians in their doctrine of Jesus.


Agree with "The Pook." However, to borrow a phrase from a Christian Reformed [a Protestant denomination of American origin founded by Dutch immigrants] author whose name slips my mind right now (I think it may have been Van Baalen), these are the "step-children" of Christianity and not properly considered Christian.

To reiterate, all Christians are able to confess the so-called Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed without "crossing their fingers" whether they are Orthodox or Catholic, Roman or Protestant, Reformed or Arminian, that is, they acknowledge the God who is one God in three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Trinity.

If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.

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#182365 - 02/03/09 04:38 PM Re: Cancer [Re: Faldage]
PastorVon Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Originally Posted By: PastorVon


Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer.


I'm not sure what it was in his invocation that counts as invoking the name of Jesus early in the prayer unless it was the mention of "[a]lmighty God, our Father". Perhaps you can enlighten me.


I'll have to call up the text of Pastor Warren's prayer. When I do, I will cite the specific articulation that I consider invoked Jesus. PBP.

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#182367 - 02/03/09 04:44 PM Re: Cancer [Re: PastorVon]
PastorVon Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: PastorVon
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Originally Posted By: PastorVon


Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer.


I'm not sure what it was in his invocation that counts as invoking the name of Jesus early in the prayer unless it was the mention of "[a]lmighty God, our Father". Perhaps you can enlighten me.


I'll have to call up the text of Pastor Warren's prayer. When I do, I will cite the specific articulation that I consider invoked Jesus. PBP.


Apparently, I cannot count very well or estimate early or late; but what I was referring to occurred in the 7th paragraph of Warren's prayer. The 6th-8th paragraphs were:

"----Help us to share, to serve and to seek the common good of all. May all people of goodwill today join together to work for a more just, a more healthy and a more prosperous nation and a peaceful planet. And may we never forget that one day all nations and all people will stand accountable before you. We now commit our new president and his wife, Michelle and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, into your loving care.

"----I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life, Yeshua, Isa, Jesus [Spanish pronunciation], Jesus, who taught us to pray:

"----'Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.' "

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#182370 - 02/03/09 05:54 PM Re: Cancer [Re: PastorVon]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: PastorVon
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.


says you.

and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

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#182371 - 02/03/09 06:00 PM Re: [Re: Buffalo Shrdlu]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:
says you.

and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.

Yes please.

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#182384 - 02/04/09 07:16 AM Re: Cancer [Re: Buffalo Shrdlu]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Originally Posted By: etaoin
Originally Posted By: PastorVon
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.


says you.

and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.


I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do.

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#182387 - 02/04/09 08:18 AM Re: Cancer [Re: Faldage]
The Pook Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1067
Loc: Tasmania
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Originally Posted By: etaoin
Originally Posted By: PastorVon
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.


says you.

and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.


I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do.

It varies. Some say we Trinitarians are followers of the devil. Others that we are just a bit misled or silly.

Historically, the vast majority of Christians in the history of the world have regarded belief in the Triune nature of God as one of the touchstones of normal Christian belief. It is one of the few things that Orthodox, Protestants and Catholics all hold. Whether our belief is true is a question outside the bounds of this forum, but Von is right that most Christians would regard non-Trinitarians as outside the Christian Church. We are possibly sailing a bit close to the wind here, however no harm done since it has been a perfectly polite and non-argumentative discussion and the purpose of that rule is to avoid arguments.

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#182394 - 02/04/09 11:57 AM Re: Cancer [Re: Faldage]
PastorVon Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Originally Posted By: etaoin
Originally Posted By: PastorVon
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.


says you.

and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.


I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do.


I certainly cannot speak *for* all of them; but I know some who acknowledge that Christians *are* Christians if they believe that God is a Triune God, a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The rub is that such people would say that Christianity is not *the* true religion in which to trust.

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#182398 - 02/04/09 01:51 PM Re: Cancer [Re: PastorVon]
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 6436
Loc: Land of the Flat Water

To say nothing of Chacedonians, Nestorians, Monophysites.
I'm with etaoin: out of here for now.
_________________________
----please, draw me a sheep----

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