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Hi Dale:
Your son is trying to convince me to go MAC and then I get your email regarding the unnecessary keystrokes and I go into nervous twitches about making the BIG change from BILL.
….
Hi Glenn:
It was, as you know, at the behest of my excellent No. 1 Son in a fit of disgust when the hackers finally discovered a way to turn off my Norton before proceeding with their intrigues, I belatedly switched from Bill to Mac; and I think unless the former does something drastic about the virus and worm he is, albeit gradually, on his way out…
….while true to my offspring’s claim that Mac is faster and superior in almost all aspects….
…trouble is, I’ve encountered two and only two kinds of technical people in the world, engineers and writers, and never shall the twains collide. Almost all writers are mechanically incompetent and ignorant of the simplest principles of mechanics and physics as you may note from the ridiculous bloopers of the typical AP reporter…
…while of course almost all engineers are functionally illiterate and so it would rarely occur to a software writer that someone might wish to edit his Mail. Outlook’s nearly-satisfactory editing provisions from Word is a fortuitous historical circumstance probably arising from collusions involving the occasional maverick who dabbles in both fields but who is largely incompetent in both, like me. Mac’s people are pure engineers so Mail is virtually devoid of editing facility
(Interesting to note that as an erstwhile tech writer I had encountered a number of such ambivalent people, a small number to be sure, but in each case I sensed him either peculiar in some way or vaguely dissatisfied with his lot in life; at least three of them [one being me] ultimately opting out of the writing slot entirely, in favor of pure engineering)
Thus after my desperate pleas, son Lee [a highly-remunerated and remarkably competent IT from Aerospace] in an agonizing effort has provided for a me a means to switch files back and forth between Mail and [Mac’s version of] Word
I must first close any file I think needs editing, use his new facility moving it to Word; make any changes necessary, then return it to Mail, any afterthoughts requiring a repeat of the entire process. The system is very slow and still plagued by several annoying glitches though beats it the pants off the former requirement entailing repeated Edit, Select-all, Copy, Cut-and-Paste, Cut-and-Paste, Edit, Select All…. etc etc indefinitely ad ifinitum. Apparently many like this tedious routine because it makes them feel competent and important
Yet there must be millions of folk like myself who used Outlook editing provisions from Word, feeling so sorely deprived and who eventually will make themselves heard. Until then, however, unless everything you compose using Mail turns out perfect in every respect the very first time, yes do think twice about switching to Mac
dalehileman
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I edit mail in Mail all the time. and you certainly don't need to close one program to use another.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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I edit mail in Mail all the time. and you certainly don't need to close one program to use another. Then you surely must have found a means, for example, to transfer personal toolbar editing macros from Word and to more easily access Thesaurus, in which case I'd be most happy hearing from you, being dalehileman@me.com Actually I try not to inadvertently close any I am using but I do find it more difficult (even tedious) in Mac switching back and forth between windows, especially if they're in different programs
dalehileman
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well, in that case, I don't use Word for much of anything, and I don't use any macros. I also rarely if ever consult the Thesaurus, at least not the digital kind. there are a bunch of key commands available in any mac program, however, just look in the various Menu item dropdowns. as for switching program windows, nothing could be easier: hold the Apple key (next to the Space Bar) and press the Tab key; it will toggle between whatever applications you have open. I would also suggest you look for a Mac-User Group in your area. http://www.at-la.com/cities/apple_valley/computers.htm#usergrhttp://home.earthlink.net/~douglasnesmith/smug/
Last edited by etaoin; 01/06/09 06:29 PM. Reason: fixed an url.
formerly known as etaoin...
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as always, dale, your post meanders too much for me to tell exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish. but here is one thought, regarding use of an online/inline Thesaurus.
If you are using one of the mainstream browsers (IE7, firefox) you can add (for instance) Thesaurus.com to the browser's Search Box. The usual practice is to have Google.com set as the default search engine for this search box, but you can add as many additional engines as you like and use them just as you use the default. If this idea interests you, I can provide details. (it would be helpful, of course, to know which browser you actually use.)
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Pooh-Bah
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well, in that case, I don't use Word for much of anything, and I don't use any macros. *****Although it is by no means a reflection on the profession, as I said, many of us, especially "engineers," don't write much and thus don't appreciate the saving of keystrokes. With DOS I had provided myself 105 macros, over a period of some 17 years saving me perhaps ten million unnecessary and tedious keystrokes *****With Word/Outlook editing was somewhat easier but I nonetheless dragged a dozen or two of the helpful little fellows up into the editing toolbar. Even Delete, Backspace, Spacebar, and a few other one-strokers which then allowed me to lean back. doing much with the mouse I also rarely if ever consult the Thesaurus, at least not the digital kind. *******I use it up to 100 times a day. In Outlook of course I placed it in the toolbar through Word so that I could access it in one click. In Entourage it required two clicks. In Mail it's not available by any conventient means and so it's one I miss most sorely [excuse the alliteration; it's that very sort of thing upon which the writer depends for editing to correct] there are a bunch of key commands available in any mac program, however, just look in the various Menu item dropdowns. *******Oh have. In Mail for instance, Thesaurus is the one missing from Tools ***** I suppose I could eventually learn the key commands for all Bill's macros, as well as all Mac's (I believe there are hundreds) as well as those of the F keys (Believe there are only 40 or 50) but I had hoped Mac would have made it easier not more difficult; tho at the verge of senility I just don't have that much time left as for switching program windows, nothing could be easier: hold the Apple key (next to the Space Bar) and press the Tab key; it will toggle between whatever applications you have open. *****I tried it and got about five huge color icons which I'm not quite sure how to use but I'm guessing the process requires additional keystrokes. Then somehow they begin flashing in a sort of scrolling fashion. When I let go of tab in preparation for selecting one [on the fly?], they all disappeared. If you could elaborate how windows might be cycled with one keystroke using a macro in the toolbar I'd be indebted ****Incidentally back in the good old days my red spelling wigglies were forever disappearing, whereupon I composed a macro requiring 18 keystrokes to restore them. Of course I placed the macro in the toolbar but if you don't mind the additional pecking why be my guest, I'd be glad to pass it along. However, it doesn't work in every version of Windows and maybe not at all in Mac I would also suggest you look for a Mac-User Group in your area. http://www.at-la.com/cities/apple_valley/computers.htm#usergrhttp://home.earthlink.net/~douglasnesmith/smug/ Than you most kindly eta for those links though alas in my 79th year I'd hoped learning Mac wouldn't be so dreadfully time consuming
dalehileman
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as always, dale, your post meanders too much for me to tell exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish.
****Alas, as always. In short, can you provide a means to transfer personal macros from Word's toolbar to Mail's
but here is one thought, regarding use of an online/inline Thesaurus.
If you are using one of the mainstream browsers (IE7, firefox) you can add (for instance) Thesaurus.com to the browser's Search Box. The usual practice is to have Google.com set as the default search engine for this search box, but you can add as many additional engines as you like and use them just as you use the default. If this idea interests you, I can provide details. (it would be helpful, of course, to know which browser you actually use.) ****tsu thank you for that suggestion but I'm not even quite sure what a browser is. For years my digital friends have been pushing programs like Firefox but I'm afraid of complex interactions (there are an estimated 100,000 in Windows alone) and finding that sort of thing difficult I entertain great hopes it can all be done without outside help And yes I use an online Thesaurus though it often punches a pretty good hole in the day because it accessing requires so many keystrokes that in doing so I often also inadvertently shut down the document I had been editing Eventually however Bill will make editing available in Mail just as Bill did with Outlook
dalehileman
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as for switching program windows, nothing could be easier: hold the Apple key (next to the Space Bar) and press the Tab key; it will toggle between whatever applications you have open.
*****I tried it and got about five huge color icons which I'm not quite sure how to use but I'm guessing the process requires additional keystrokes. Then somehow they begin flashing in a sort of scrolling fashion. When I let go of tab in preparation for selecting one [on the fly?], they all disappeared. If you could elaborate how windows might be cycled with one keystroke using a macro in the toolbar I'd be indebted
Thank you most kindly eta for those links though alas in my 79th year I'd hoped learning Mac wouldn't be so dreadfully time consuming
sorry, I wasn't clear about the Apple-Tab thing. once you hold the Apple key down and click Tab, you can let up the Tab key(while still holding the Apple key), then each subsequent click of the Tab key will move you to the next icon, which represents the various programs you have open. and that's as close as I get to macros. 
formerly known as etaoin...
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>I'm not even quite sure what a browser is.
gosh, dale, a browser is what you're using to read these posts.
and the broswer's search box is that little area up in the window's pane's top right-hand corner with the magnifying glass for a clickable icon. (again, assuming you're using a mainstream browser.) by using this box you don't have to mess with the the main address/url area of the browser to do searches. but I'm getting ahead of you again.
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[quote=dalehileman] ....hold the Apple key down and click Tab, you can let up the Tab key (while still holding the Apple key), then each subsequent click of the Tab key will move you to the next icon, which represents the various programs you have open. and that's as close as I get to macros. tsu thank you for your diligent attempt to straighten me out but I guess I'm hopeless, I had expected that following this routine would cycle me through the various programs but apparently all it does is tell me which ones are open, which I already knew, and anyhow when I have forgotten I simply activate my dock, requiring no keystrokes at all
dalehileman
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>...and the broswer's search box is that little area up in the window's pane's top right-hand corner with the magnifying glass... tsu I'm beginning to feel guilty, afraid Admin will shut us down if we continue thus. However, when I click on the mag I get a little blue window entitled "spotlight" that requires me to type something, I have no idea what it wants What would really be nice if the were an icon somewhere when you click on it, it cycles you to another active window. The closest I have been able to come, requires switching back and forth between "Window" and Dock, very clumsy. My No. 1 Son has provided me with means for switching back and forth between Word and Mail but it's somewhat clumsy and full of glitches. However I think we must be trying the others' patience and so if you were to give up in utter disgust I would understand Evidently the digital word and I wee not cut out for mutual intraction ..tho you can reach me at dalehileman@me.com
dalehileman
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[quote=dalehileman] ....hold the Apple key down and click Tab, you can let up the Tab key (while still holding the Apple key), then each subsequent click of the Tab key will move you to the next icon, which represents the various programs you have open. and that's as close as I get to macros. tsu thank you for your diligent attempt to straighten me out but I guess I'm hopeless, I had expected that following this routine would cycle me through the various programs but apparently all it does is tell me which ones are open, which I already knew, and anyhow when I have forgotten I simply activate my dock, requiring no keystrokes at all it DOES cycle through the programs that are open, that's the point. just stop on the one you want to have active.
formerly known as etaoin...
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[quote=dalehileman][quote=etaoin][quote=dalehileman]
....hold the Apple key down and click Tab,.....it DOES cycle through the programs that are open, that's the point. just stop on the one you want to have active. Aha! thank you eta, this morning it worked fine just as you say. Don't know what I had been doing wrong. However if more than one file is open within a given program, in order to cycle through them it's still necessary to resort to "Window", picking them out one at a time Note to Mac if you're listening: First of all we need a means of copying personal editing macros into all the toolbars for instant use anytime. One of these would cycle through not only the programs in use but also the files open in each program. Thus you cold sit back and find the one you needed using only the mouse
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Dale:
Thanks for your comments. If I had the opportunity to learn
computer early in life like today's young-uns then I might
be able to understand what is going on too. Most of my
problem comes with computer usage, not grammar and the things
talked about here. It's like lifting the hood on a 1955
Chevrolet, and a 2008 one. You can't touch anything under
the hood, and what is all that stuff anyhow??
Luke
----please, draw me a sheep----
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[quote=dalehileman][quote=etaoin][quote=dalehileman]
....hold the Apple key down and click Tab,.....it DOES cycle through the programs that are open, that's the point. just stop on the one you want to have active. Aha! thank you eta, this morning it worked fine just as you say. Don't know what I had been doing wrong. However if more than one file is open within a given program, in order to cycle through them it's still necessary to resort to "Window", picking them out one at a time Note to Mac if you're listening: First of all we need a means of copying personal editing macros into all the toolbars for instant use anytime. One of these would cycle through not only the programs in use but also the files open in each program. Thus you cold sit back and find the one you needed using only the mouse well, there is this: Witch. it's great, and it used to be free, but now it costs a few bucks. you can also use Expose, which is built into your system. try hitting the F9 key. I also just ran across this: Mac Switcher bundle which you might look into.
Last edited by etaoin; 01/07/09 06:02 PM. Reason: added more stuff...
formerly known as etaoin...
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Dale, I want to give a little comment to your initial question.
Neither Bill nor Mac are listening in any possible way. Not to mention hardware producers or assemblers. I work on an old borrowed Dell because my new one has a malfunctioning or damaged network card and is back to where it came from. I can only use webmail because the outlook on this one gives pop.server errors. I handwrite down incoming definitions because I have no Word nor notebook. My modest advise is: improvise. Somehow I feel sure internet connection will hold on till I get those defs. published.
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Pooh-Bah
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Luke, Bran, thank you for your sympathy
Bran I can only hope that some day you have an offspring who becomes an IT, as my excellent No. 1 Son
You're no doubt correct about Bill and Mac and in fact almost nobody is listening any more
Eta thank you for those links. The F9 trick is promising. I used the Apple-tab trick a few times and you have my gratitude as always but it seems easier to sit back using the mouse to access the Dock
Incidentally for anyone who is troubled by the mouse running off the pad at the bottom, the Dock can be dragged off to the side. Click on the apple, then go down to Dock
dalehileman
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There hasn't been an operating system that actually worked since Commodore went bust and the Amiga finished.
Microsoft blame the third party hardware manufacturers and vice verse for anything that goes wrong. Vista is a bad joke.
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well, I have had very few problems with my macs, especially since OSX, and I know lots of Windows users, that with prudent use, have very few troubles with their machines.
formerly known as etaoin...
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since Commodore went bust and the Amiga finishedAh, those Guru Meditation numbers, Blue Screens of Death, and Sad Macs! How did I learn to live without you? ...
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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enthusiast
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Linux (Ubuntu, specifically) has become quite stable and reliable.
Coupled with OpenOffice, I no longer have a 'need' for any other OS (or Microsoft products).
"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton
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Microsoft to release beta version of Windows 7 operating system on Friday link
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Pooh-Bah
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zm thank you for those links. Sometimes I wish after having compiled 5400 entries I hadn't quit collecting neologisms but they simply accumulate too fast
Even in Word with instant editing capability
See "Chuckle..." under "Wordplay and fun"
dalehileman
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I know lots of Windows users, that with prudent use, have very few troubles with their machines. Prudent Use = plain vanilla, do as you are told, only use MS products and never exercise anything like imagination or creativity? You only have to visit Microsoft forums and newsgroups to see the thousands of disaffected and frustrated clients of Vista, many of whom are professional IT people and still can't make it do what it was meant to do. There are certain things, like mixed networking and driving a whole lot of very common brand peripherals, that Vista is even worse at than previous incarnations of the MS OS.
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I know lots of Windows users, that with prudent use, have very few troubles with their machines. ******As I had said, Mac is superior to Bill in almost all respects except editing, and most folk simply don't have much need for this capability and so once they have learned to cope with its inferior speed and need for virus protection, find it perfectly satisfactory. However, if you use Mail you will have noted it's impossible even to highlight-and-drag a phrase or para, where you have to instead resort to highlight, Cut, reposition, Paste. You have also probably noticed that in attempting to reposition a single word it doesn't work the same way each time compared with the instant dragging capability in Outlook **That is because with Mac you need to observe a certain delay. You have to remember how long it is and where to insert it: before releasing the mouse key, after releasing it, during the second click before dragging, etc etc etc etc Little things like this could drive one up the proverbial digital wall ***Also in attempting to highlight you may have noticed that the shading doesn't always go where you want it but instead assumes a start position apparently at random ***If I have repeated myself forgive me, as newcomers often don't scan foregoing posts Prudent Use = plain vanilla, do as you are told, only use MS products and never exercise anything like imagination or creativity? ***Sorry Pook but I'm not quite sure to whom this was meant to apply nor whether it was pejorative You only have to visit Microsoft forums and newsgroups to see the thousands of disaffected and frustrated clients of Vista, many of whom are professional IT people and still can't make it do what it was meant to do. ****You are quite right about this, as confirmed by my very competent IT No. 1 Son Lee. Vista is so bad that at least one prestigious firm refuses to use it and insisted Microsoft return them to its former incarnation. This and virus immunity are the two chief reasons I switched over in spite of my objections to Mac. In time Mac will come to realize its mistake in respect of editing and provide a crossover to Word, as with Outlook, and that's one reason I'm sticking with it There are certain things, like mixed networking and driving a whole lot of very common brand peripherals, that Vista is even worse at than previous incarnations of the MS OS. *******No doubt. When Mac finally realizes its egregious error and provides some editing capability however, I'm sure I'll find it perfectly satisfactory
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