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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Magic of Words #180052 11/03/08 05:30 PM Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1 United States J James French OP stranger OP James French stranger J Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1 United States I could not disagree more with the argument on usage included with this entry. I am committed to the belief that a preposition is an introduction to a modifying phrase, not an alternative adjective. The example given, highlighted even better by the ubiquitous "Where are you at?", is sloppy writing or speaking, nothing more, nothing less. As to splitting infinitives. the same accusation applies. An extraneous adverb does not contribute well to the meaning of a sentence. If an adverb is needed, it belongs after a verb. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence James French #180053 11/03/08 06:11 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh Here's a good place to start reading up on the history of the this grammatical superstition (link). And, coincidentally, Stephen Fry has a blog entry that addresses the true magic of words (link). Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence zmjezhd #180054 11/03/08 06:54 PM Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague Stephen Fry. Fantastic. Can that man roll on about language and what not.(thanks for the link Zmjehzd) I have to keep the second half for later. Amazing. "For the meantime, seal it in a baggie and stash it in your hoodie. Or fold it in scented tissue and lay it tenderly in your hope chest, according to taste." I'm following the weekly BBC program 'Fry in America'.Very sympathetic. Very nice.(You can find sequences on Youtube) Last edited by BranShea; 11/03/08 07:01 PM. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence BranShea #180056 11/03/08 08:35 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Stephen Fry rocks. there's a great video (you can find it on youtube) from Fry and Laurie about language. rolling on the floor laughing funny. formerly known as etaoin... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence Buffalo Shrdlu #180057 11/03/08 08:58 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh "Hold the news reader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers." Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence zmjezhd #180062 11/03/08 11:06 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 From zmjezhd's link above: Quote: (2a) That tiny hole is the place which the mouse escaped from. (2b) That tiny hole is the place from which the mouse escaped. (2c) That tiny hole is the place wherefrom the mouse escaped. (3a) My car was broken into last night. (3b) Somebody broke into my car last night. In (2a), if you're into which-hunting, since the phrase 'the mouse escaped from' is restrictive, it should be introduced by that, not which. This means that after moving the preposition forward to where it allegedly belongs, you would have the sentence Quote: (2b) That tiny hole is the place from that the mouse escaped. In the case of the sentences (3a) and (3b) I would suggest that the word into is not a preposition but the particle of a phrasal verb. In this case it is not one that can be put at the end of a sentence. We have (3a) My car was broken into last night. but not *(3c) My car was broken last night into. This is unlike the pair (4a) Jack and Jill ran up a big bill. (4b) Jack and Jill ran a big bill up. In this case up is not a preposition but the particle of a phrasal verb, one that can be moved to the end of the sentence. As for the split infinitives it is not difficult to find examples where the so-called rule leaves us with sentences that cannot be expressed properly without splitting the infinitive. The sentence will either say something that is not meant or will be hopelessly clunky. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: a preposition outstanding in its sentence zmjezhd #180076 11/04/08 02:08 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Originally Posted By: zmjezhd "Hold the news reader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers." makes me laugh every time. I can read it ten times in a row and I still laugh each time. formerly known as etaoin... 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