|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
stranger
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1 |
Hey, first time poster here. Not sure if I should put this here, but it seemed a good a place as any. I love the daily emails, however today's (14/4/08) contained something I have always had a pet peeve about. This week's words are created using combining forms. What are combining forms? You can think of them as the Legos of language. Now I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the term is just "Lego", singular and plural. Like "sheep". Firefox spell checker agrees with me, so I can't be too far off. Sorry, it's just that I've always been slightly annoyed whenever someone says "Legos" instead of "Lego". As I said, I love the emails, keep up the good work! -Doc
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Welcome to AWAD. Check around at local pet shops. There may be some nearby that have peeve chow for your pets.
Language cannot successfully be legislated, nor can it be controlled merely by the supply side of commerce. New words introduced into languages are almost invariably regular, whatever they may have been in the minds of the parents of those words. My advice is to get used to it. Legos is like peas or cherries only the other way around.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
New words introduced into languages are almost invariably regular, whatever they may have been in the minds of the parents of those words. My advice is to get used to it. Legos is like peas or cherries only the other way around. Did you mean irregular?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390 |
New words introduced into languages are almost invariably regular, whatever they may have been in the minds of the parents of those words. My advice is to get used to it. Legos is like peas or cherries only the other way around. Did you mean irregular? I'm still mastering English, but his comment made sense to me with the word "regular". If a new word comes in, it is easy to see how it might follow the regular rules, in this case the one that says English makes words into plurals by adding "s". That's what I thought Faldage was saying anyway. I'm going to see if I did get this right. If we use a made-up word like that pieriansipist thing that Raul asked about, I'm guessing that Faldage is saying the plural would be pieriansipists, the adjective would be pieriansipistic, the adverb would pieriansipistically, and so on. Maybe whoever made it up might say different but if the word ever did make it for real it would work the way the majority of English words work. Now to see if I did comprehend Faldage's words properly.
Last edited by latishya; 04/14/08 12:36 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Actually, legos is the singular; the plural is legoi. The form the hoi legoi is to be eschewed. FWIW: the company name Lego is from the Danish leg godt 'play well'; the main product of the company is Lego bricks.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Hoi legoi ! Lego whith a capital L ,L! In English you can do it with an s because the noun comes at the end of the sentence:
To play with legos. We can't do it very well. Met Legos spelen.
The upfollowing ss's would become one anyway.
Last edited by BranShea; 04/15/08 07:01 AM. Reason: typo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Latishya has got it right. Pieariansipist might not be a good example since it follows the rules that would be normal for words ending in the suffix -ist. A better example might be mongoose. The temptation is to form the plural as mongeese; this is incorrect but will probably be seen in informal use. Mongooses outgoogles mongeese 170,000 to 34,500. It's more commonly seen in verbs. For example, the verb grandstand has as its past tense grandstanded and not *grandstood. It derives not from the verb stand but from the noun grandstand.
To expand on my peas and cherries examples, they were originally mass nouns, English pease and Anglo-Norman cherise. They were both re-analyzed as count plurals and the singulars were back-formed, giving us the count nouns pea and cherry respectively. Getting back to Legos, given Nuncle's revelation that the correct term for the little thingies themselves is LegoŽ bricks Lego is actually functioning as an adjective. Since we have nouned it we can make the plural any-dang-thing we want.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
and, as the phrase 'let's play with our Lego' probly sounds a bit odd to a kid, I've always heard Legos, and never once have I been inclined to correct them.
-ron o.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Yes, thanks Latishya, in hindsight it's clear. Because Faldage said " are regular" I was fooled into thinking that referred to their state when coming into the language, which didn't make sense to me. I see now that he meant they become regularised, being slotted by English speakers into the existing framework of forming regular parts of speech. That's to be expected. However, I still don't see the need to pluralise it whatever its orgin may be. tsuwm said "and, as the phrase 'let's play with our Lego' probly sounds a bit odd to a kid, I've always heard Legos, and never once have I been inclined to correct them." I've never heard or used Legos, and I would say to a kid "let's get your Lego out," not Legos. It's a collective noun like sheep or fish, describing the whole collection of bricks and other little bits that comprise a kid's store of Lego, or the type of thing they are, not the individual component. This is true even if it has become more than just a brand name and now applies generically to other brands of click-together bricks. Why not say "look at the sheeps" or "there's lots of grains in that silo"? It's the same kind of word. Also, whilst I appreciate zmjexhd's amusing suggestion of Hellenizing the ending (and wish I'd said it first  ), of course it is only accidentally the same ending as a regular Greek singular masculine noun (and only in the Anglicized plural), and it makes more sense to give a Danish loan word an English ending than a Greek one. However, in this case I don't think it should be given any plural ending because it is already a collective noun. So although I don't share the peeve of the OP (I could care less about Lego), I think he is technically correct.
Last edited by The Pook; 04/15/08 12:09 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
> "let's get your Lego out,"
and the poor kid would think that he only had one brick.
how many horse you got?
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
Regardless of the way we would like people to use words, they will use them as they see fit. In the United States, most people are in a hurry to say what they want, and will shorten to the bare minimum to get there faster. This is why terms like "iced cream", "skimmed milk" and "creamed cheese" have been shortened, even officially, to "ice cream" (which never made sense to me as a child - there's no ice in it!), "skim milk" and "cream cheese". No one here would bother for long saying "Lego bricks"; I've never heard anyone say that, only "Legos". The LEGO Group is very aggressive in protecting their LEGO name. They own both lego.com and legos.com, although the latter will get you redirected to the former. They do not consider LEGO a noun at all; to them it is to be used only as an adjective. I think most Americans would be surprised to hear there is anything wrong with saying "Legos". I'm not defending or endorsing it, just reporting "the way it is", like tsuwm said. :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
> "let's get your Lego out,"
and the poor kid would think that he only had one brick. Are you people serious? You really call one brick a Lego? Okay, so it's dialectic then. But to me there's no such thing as A Lego. It's just Lego. Like Jello. Or Oregano. How many sheeps do you have?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Regardless of the way we would like people to use words, they will use them as they see fit. In the United States, most people are in a hurry to say what they want, and will shorten to the bare minimum to get there faster. ..."Lego bricks"; I've never heard anyone say that, only "Legos". I understand that - Australians are even lazier than Americans when it comes to contractions. Which is probably why we economise even further and don't bother to put 's' on the end. Why would you say "let's play with your Legos" when you can say let's play with your Lego" and it means the same thing. It's the same as saying "Let's play with your X-box" except that it's a brand name that describes a toy which has a number of component parts. The parts themselves are not individually named a lego - they are called bricks. I accept that if that is the way Americans use the term then dialectically and colloquially it has come to have that meaning. But "it's not logical Captain." 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956 |
Heaps of Sheeps over here
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Great picture, olly!  For me and my kids, it was always one lego, and two or more legos. What's that thing with kudos, again please? There's no such thing as a kudo? Or something like that. P.S.--nearly forgot: welcome aBoard, doc!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
The parts themselves are not individually named a lego - they are called bricks. I accept that if that is the way Americans use the term then dialectically and colloquially it has come to have that meaning. But "it's not logical Captain." I must beg to differ! I think part of the problem is that in the US, anyway, much of what are called "Legos" are specifically not bricks by any stretch of the imagination! Legos come in sets with people, parts of costumes, windows, doors, platforms, wheels, axles, lights, gears etc. etc. etc. Yes, "bricks" are still used, but there are so many more "non-bricks", that the term "Legos" seems to cover them all, and that's logical, Cap'n! :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Heaps of Sheeps over here hahahahahaha. Only in New Zealand! But is it a Lego Sheep, or a Legos Sheeo?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>But is it a Lego Sheep, or a Legos Sheeo? [sic] it's a Lego Sheep, as it's used in the original adjectival sense there. but here are some legos that are sheep, etc. - joe (sheepishly) friday
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
I must beg to differ! I think part of the problem is that in the US, anyway, much of what are called "Legos" are specifically not bricks by any stretch of the imagination! Legos come in sets with people, parts of costumes, windows, doors, platforms, wheels, axles, lights, gears etc. etc. etc. Yes, "bricks" are still used, but there are so many more "non-bricks", that the term "Legos" seems to cover them all, and that's logical, Cap'n! :0)
The "the war of the bricks" , true, the simple brick collection is becoming rare. Even the name Lego is lost for these new specific items. They ask 'Bionicals' on their wish-list. Lego is forgotten. But they ask for the Lego castle, the Lego pirate ship. Never seen it with an s here. Legos would be as unfamiliar to us as Lego is to you. but here are some legos that are sheep, etc.
Which illustrates that many items have nothing to do with bricks any more. No ice in ice cream, twosleepy? We call it 'ice' or ijsje. The cream is not mentioned at all and the good ice cream should have a texture that 'shows' the ice in it.( imo)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
No ice in ice cream, twosleepy? We call it 'ice' or ijsje. The cream is not mentioned at all and the good ice cream should have a texture that 'shows' the ice in it.(imo) That reminds me, I seem to remember in old British literature of the 20th century it being called an 'ice lolly' or something similar.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Isn't an ice lolly something like a popsicle? There's another trade name gone generic, for those of y'all who are scoring at home. Does any USn here know the legal generic term for popsicles?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
functioning as an adjective
Doesn't seem like an adjective to me. Seems like an old-fashioned compound noun to me. For example:
1. Pick up your lego bricks and put them away.
2. *These bricks a very lego.
3. *The older, primary-colored bricks are the most lego of all.
I have never heard anybody say anything but legos when referring to lego bricks. It's sounds as unnatural as saying "that is consistent with hoi polloi".
I do pity the poor folk who actually use the language though. If they shorten phrases, such as ice cream for iced cream or lengthen them, such as ATM machine or PIN number they are damned.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! Lego my Eggo!
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
Does any USn here know the legal generic term for popsicles? Quiescently frozen confection. Seriously.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
it's a verb!
Sure, third conjugation: first person singular active indicative. So the plural should be: legimus.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! Lego my Eggo! Okay - "my Eggo!" λέγω ότι εμόν ωόν-ω
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! You mean let go? Could you reveale the real meaning for the non latinists? functioning as an adjective functioning as an adjective
Doesn't seem like an adjective to me. Seems like an old-fashioned compound noun to me. For example:
There is a song by Chris Rea called "popsicle toes". Compound noun or adjective, Zmjezhd.?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! You mean let go? Could you reveale the real meaning for the non latinists? Actually I'm a non-Latinist myself. I was referring to Greek. As z* said, the "first person singular active indicative" (which is the usual lexical form) of the Greek word for 'to say' is lego(λέγω). So Lego means simultaneously: 1. a brand of toy comprised of a number of components you put together to make something; 2. The Greek for "I say" and 3. Yes, it is also slang for "Let go," however, it would probably more often be spelled with a double 'g' - Leggo So when I said "Lego - I say actually it's a verb!" I meant Lego is actually the verb "I say." In my reply to etaoin, λέγω ότι εμόν ωόν-ω is "I say "my egg-o" which is what he asked me to say when he said "Lego my Eggo!" I could also have said απόλυσω τόν ωόν-ω εμόν (apoluso ton Oon-O emon) which would be "Leggo my eggo" hee hee this is fun Oh and just to confuse things even more, we have a brand of pasta sauce here called Leggos. Leggo's Authentico
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Lego - actually I say - it's a verb! You mean let go? Could you reveale the real meaning for the non latinists? functioning as an adjective functioning as an adjective
Doesn't seem like an adjective to me. Seems like an old-fashioned compound noun to me. For example:
There is a song by Chris Rea called "popsicle toes". Compound noun or adjective, Zmjezhd.? Just goes to show that the border between nouns and adjectives is fuzzy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Just goes to show that the border between nouns and adjectives is fuzzy.
Quite fuzzy. The Roman and Greek grammarians had a single lexical category (new-fangled speak for part of speech) called nomen, nominis 'noun', literally 'name'. Nomina were furthered subdivided into nomina substantiva 'names which stand for' and nomina adjectiva 'names which increase' or 'hurled at names'. The Greek grammarians came up with this distinction and the Romans basically copied it and translated the terms. The analysis is based on the fact that there is no way to determine (by form or morphology) if a nomen is an noun or an adjective: the case endings used are identical, and adjectives could be used by themselves in a Latin sentence in the same way as a substantive. Adjectives weren't spun off into their own category until late in the 18th century.
popsicle toes
The word toes is definitely being modified by popsicle, but whatever the lexical category of popsicle is (and I go for noun) it's not the same as the category for adjectives. I base this on what slots the word can fill in sentence templates: e.g., the following is not grammatical for me: "my toes are very popsicle". To me, popsicle toes seems uncontroversially a compound noun of the form: baseball, babysitter, etc. Your analysis may vary.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
the LEGOŽ Stance:
Using the LEGO brand name
Please help us to protect our brand name:
The LEGO brand name should always be written in capital letters
LEGO must never be used as a generic term or in the plural or as a possessive pronoun, e.g. LEGOs.
When the LEGO brand name is used as part of a noun, it must never appear on its own. It should always be accompanied by a noun. For example, LEGO set, LEGO products, LEGO Group, LEGO play materials, LEGO bricks, LEGO universe, etc.
The first time the LEGO brand name appears it must be accompanied by the Registered symbol Ž.
Thank you for helping us!
[primary color added]
for me, then, saying "let's play (with our) LEGO" is as equally proscribed as saying "let's play (with our) Legos". according to the LEGO Lawyers.
-joe (lex estn't lux) friday
edit: can you find the inconsistencies in the LEGO legal statement? (there seem to be at least two)
Last edited by tsuwm; 04/16/08 06:40 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
it's a verb!
Sure, third conjugation: first person singular active indicative. So the plural should be: legimus. It could be a Latin noun as well. Probably third declension, increasing pattern, like bufo, -onis (frog). The plural would be legones.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
I base this on what slots the word can fill in sentence templates: e.g., the following is not grammatical for me: "my toes are very popsicle".
That's indeed an adaquate way to sort it out. It does not play much in our language, because we tend to glue the "compounds" together, f.i. witness stand is 'getuigenbank', numerical strenght is 'getalsterkte'. Pure nouns.
So it is more confusing in English but your 'mnemonic device' is very helpful.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
It could be a Latin noun as well.
Yes, it could.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Further to what I said above in response to etaoin's post, I just realised that "Lego my Eggo" could also be taken to mean
In English "Let go of my Ego"
In Greek "Say my I" (which wouldn't mean anything but then neither does this whole conversation...)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
In Latin lego, as a verb, could mean one of a variety of things. My favorite for the whole phase is 'I bequeath my Eggo.'
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
In Latin lego, as a verb, could mean one of a variety of things. My favorite for the whole phase is 'I bequeath my Eggo.' Which you probably wouldn't bother to do unless it was a Faberge-o Eggo!
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,331
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
854
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
